Maureen SoberFitLife (00:00.858)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Sober Fit Life. I want to ask you all a question today. What are you really hungry for? What are you really craving? I'd like for you to really think about that as we have this interview. Is it food? Is it alcohol? Is that what you think you're craving? Or is it something deeper underneath? Is it relief? Is it comfort? Reward, or you just want to turn your brain off. You know, if we get curious about what it is we're really craving.
We can start to find things that actually support us and nurture us and help us make changes. And so today I'm really excited to have Elizabeth Harris on with me. She's a registered dietitian and certified intuitive eating counselor who helps women put their health first without sacrificing their relationship with food. She helps people move away from restriction, food rules, and all or nothing thinking. Sounds familiar, right?
And toward a more sustainable, nourishing approach to health. And this is exactly what we're going to talk about today. what are you really hungry for? We think it's food. And of course we need food, but sometimes we're eating it because we think that's what we need. but it it's an urge underneath. So How do we start getting curious about those cravings instead of immediately judging or controlling them or then feeling bad about them and shame around them?
That's one of the central themes Elizabeth is gonna bring to our conversation. So Elizabeth, welcome to Sober Fit Life.
Elizabeth (01:29.218)
Hi Maureen, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I think there's so much overlap or or like parallel threads in what we do.
Maureen SoberFitLife (01:32.332)
Yeah, I'm so glad
Maureen SoberFitLife (01:36.888)
Yeah. Do you see that? Do people come to you and and they say they want help? What what do they come to you and say? Like what's the typical if there is such a thing client?
Elizabeth (01:47.627)
Yeah, so definitely people who are coming to me to heal their relationship with food often share that they maybe have you know, a lifetime of dieting and trying to kind of lose or manage their weight. They may feel a lot of guilt when they eat or they're they're constantly swinging between feeling deprived and feeling guilty. they maybe have had those yo-yo
Maureen SoberFitLife (02:09.86)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (02:14.584)
weight loss, regain, in weight, they might feel a lot of food guilt. They might struggle with overeating or binge eating or realize that they're just not connected to their bodies at all. They're following a lot of quote unquote rules for what to eat, but they're not it's not working for them. And they food just feels really stressful. It's probably taking up a lot more mental energy than they would like.
Maureen SoberFitLife (02:30.201)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Elizabeth (02:40.718)
And they're ready to reimagine their relationship with food, but they have no idea where to start. and I would say that's a lot of people who I work with, and then I work the other segment of people are people who just have a you know, a nutrition or health concern and they know that food plays a role, they need w I call it medical nutrition therapy.
Maureen SoberFitLife (02:46.778)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (03:05.86)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (03:06.278)
but they need to know what that is or need help making a change. And I've had many clients actually who at some point in their past struggled with their relationship with alcohol and maybe they get to a place where they feel so much better about that, but then they're seeing similar things with food. So that's not an uncommon circumstance, I would say. Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (03:29.528)
Right, swap one behavior for another. Well, let me ask you before we get into that. I most life coaches usually have a story of their own. Did you yourself go through this and found that intuitive eating worked best for you? Could you take us back a little bit and how you became an intuitive eating counselor?
Elizabeth (03:38.572)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (03:48.044)
I became a dietitian and immediately opened up my own private practice at the time. I had three kids in middle school, maybe one was inching towards or already in high school. And I was thinking hard about what I wanted my niche to be in nutrition. And I wasn't really sure, but I felt like most people looking for nutrition guidance probably needed weight.
support with weight loss. And I kind of had this idea that if I wanted a successful private practice, I needed to do that. So for a hot second, I worked with people who were that was their primary focus was weight loss. And I realized really quickly that I hated it. I just felt like what I was seeing was people could be making all sorts of amazing changes in their
lifestyle in how they were approaching food and how they were approaching exercise or their other health habits. But if they didn't, if they weren't losing weight as quickly or as much as they wanted, they would get frustrated and say, Elizabeth, this isn't working. And I would be thinking, well, of course it's working. Like let's look at all the changes you're making. Like it's working. It just depends what how you're measuring it. So that was like one part of it. The second part is my kids, I had
One who was well a a lot of kids in our orbit that we knew of were struggling with disordered eating or eating disorders. And I just sat back and thought, okay, how do I want to show up in front of my own kids and talk about food and what would be the way that I would want to support them and therefore everyone else? So like anybody, of course, in my background, I was immersed in diet culture and
Maureen SoberFitLife (05:26.458)
Mm.
Elizabeth (05:40.056)
For me, it was probably more an unhealthy relationship with exercise than food, to be honest. but I understand the harms of diet culture and then kind of seeing it professionally and seeing it in our own orbit of people just really got me to pause and think about really what is what is healthy, what is nutri like what is good nutrition. I really believe that it's not.
Food is so much more than just the nutrients we eat. And of course what we eat matters, but how we eat is just as important to your overall health and well being. And if it's causing you a lot of stress or guilt or overwhelm, or you can't stick with it, or it's causing you to, you know, hate your body because you're just so focused on what you want to change, then ultimately I don't believe that's actually enhancing your health. And so those two things kind of merged and it that's when I really
Maureen SoberFitLife (06:13.934)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (06:35.521)
got certified as an intuitive eating counselor and pivoted to a more weight neutral approach to food. And then I've really never looked back because once you start helping people with that, I I always say once you see the harms of diet culture, you cannot unsee them. And I just I just could never go back to practicing in that sort of weight normative approach because I believe it does I I I think there's a lot of harm involved.
Maureen SoberFitLife (06:46.894)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (07:01.658)
Yeah, I get that. I used to be a personal trainer. And I could think of this one woman. I back then I would go to people's homes and she wanted me to measure her every time we worked together. And she would get frustrated and was unrealistic, you know, and and she was also like five foot nine. And, you know, I actually remember when she opened the door to welcome me in, she goes, thank God you're not skinny and let me in. I'm like, Thank you. but
Elizabeth (07:03.767)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (07:08.981)
Uh-huh.
Elizabeth (07:16.108)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (07:29.274)
But it's that that's just that unrealistic expectation, you know, as we know because of Hollywood and movies, like what women especially should look like and the pressure that starts when we're young. Yeah. And I'm sure you you deal with that so much. So it it goes to that perfectionism thing that we all struggle with in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (07:36.813)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (07:42.773)
Yeah, so young.
Elizabeth (07:48.586)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, perfectionism, comparison, right? The it just leads to all or nothing approaches more often than not. And yeah, I I just think there's so many. Like I said, once you see the harms of that diet culture, you you cannot unsee them.
Maureen SoberFitLife (08:04.226)
Yeah. I feel the same way about alcohol. Once you see all the harms about alcohol, how it affects every cell in your body, it's a neurotoxin, it's hard to unsee that. You know, and understanding again how the industry messages us around diet culture, what your body should look like, and also people who drink are happy, successful, sophisticated, all those messagings that you know that come with it. So it is hard to unsee. I see that parallel with us both right away.
Elizabeth (08:08.022)
Mm.
Elizabeth (08:15.393)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (08:19.713)
Braithon.
Elizabeth (08:26.955)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (08:30.955)
Yeah, it's such a great point. It is the marketing can have a profound influence and it's just promising that unrealistic ideal or that to cut to k just keep you constantly searching, right?
Maureen SoberFitLife (08:34.521)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (08:45.614)
Yeah. Yeah. I I will say when I first start working with women and I do a break from alcohol. I help people do a coach led break from alcohol. So it's not just willpower and white knuckling, it's learning about alcohol all the way throughout. and immediately when people probably like the first week, they're like, I just really want to have sugar, you know? And and sometimes they're like, Wow, this isn't worth it because I just want to eat sugar. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Elizabeth (08:57.931)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (09:06.443)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (09:12.718)
First of all, let's understand what's going on chemically. That'll help you understand again, it's not because you're weak willed or don't have any willpower. It's because sugar and alcohol run the same reward pathway in the brain. So we've removed this one substance that you've been continuously giving sugar and now you're craving another. What would you say to that person?
Elizabeth (09:22.221)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (09:32.065)
Yeah, I would say, well, I understand. I I understand. I think that that's real. And I I think it's a couple of things. I think a lot of times alcohol can displace nutrient intake and calories. And so that as much could be a biological response if your body has not been getting the fuel it needs. Now you know, sugar is quick energy for your body. And so I think that that certainly could be.
Maureen SoberFitLife (09:35.404)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is.
Maureen SoberFitLife (09:45.4)
Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (09:52.388)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (09:57.433)
Right.
Elizabeth (10:01.414)
one factor in there. you may there can be potential nutrient deficiencies involved. and then yeah if you if alcohol is your coping mechanism and then you remove it, that you may not have an another effective tool in your toolbox yet. And so that is going to make it harder. So
Maureen SoberFitLife (10:24.28)
Yet. Right.
Yeah. What I say to them is I'm I'm like, it's okay. Right. And and they they often people will say to me when they're making this change, like, well, you know, I'm also gonna start lifting and working out five times a week and I'm gonna go on a diet. And like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's work on the first domino. You know, let's get that first one down. And the other things will start to happen. And if you're eating sugar at first, that's okay. Like let that happen. And it's not like you're gonna turn into a sugar fiend.
Elizabeth (10:31.819)
Yeah. yeah.
Elizabeth (10:41.535)
Yeah, it's like changing way too much. Yes.
Elizabeth (10:50.252)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (10:54.894)
However, you did bring up something interesting. Sometimes people when they do remove one thing and you've seen this in your practice, they do then just trade it off for something else. So talk to speak to that, what that looks like, what you've seen.
Elizabeth (11:05.069)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and if I may, before I say that, one other thing, I agree with you a hundred percent that it's okay. And I I think curiosity is such a powerful tool, right? If you're reevaluating your relationship with anything, just getting curious is super helpful. But also it if as a you know, I can't like take my dietitian. As a dietitian, I would say if you're really craving a lot of sugar, let's also just make sure that you're eating.
Maureen SoberFitLife (11:10.329)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (11:15.886)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (11:35.219)
And getting some balanced meals and that alone may lessen some of those intense sugar cravings. So I didn't say that the first time, but I wanted to be sure to say that. And I apologize. Can you re tell me the question again? Because I answered I answered my own question. Not
Maureen SoberFitLife (11:54.315)
well, no, I agree with you. We'll just I'm just talking about the one piece where they get so concerned now they're craving sugar, they're almost willing to go back to alcohol. And believe me, this is a short break we're talking about. I'm not saying that we don't use words like forever and always, but you can see the powerful, the fear of, my gosh, now I'm eating sugar. It's that piece. Like I'm like, well, let's not be afraid of that, but let's be curious. You know, number one, it's there's a chemical thing going on, the two things you mentioned, nutrients.
Elizabeth (11:58.711)
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (12:08.671)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (12:23.726)
absorption and some deficiencies and also the reward pathway in the brain. but also again, this is the curiosity piece, like you're saying. Well, what is it you're really craving? And again, maybe you didn't eat protein all day. You know, maybe you're not hydrated. Maybe you need to rest. So it's like we started out this interview, what are you really craving to really get underneath those sugar or alcohol cravings and be curious without the judgment and the shame.
Elizabeth (12:36.235)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (12:49.3)
Yeah. Yes, I completely agree. I think it's I I like to think of it as scaffolding, right? So like a layer of the scaffolding would be just to make sure you've taken maybe you've you know, you're not drinking for that week or two or whatever it is, but are you making sure that you have the scaffolding of like getting enough to eat in place? and then also I I think it's an opportunity to to to get curious exactly what you're saying and what
Maureen SoberFitLife (12:56.706)
Mm, I like that.
Maureen SoberFitLife (13:09.54)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (13:19.124)
what role is it playing in your life and how is it impacting you? And yes, it may be uncomfortable to feel to be eating more sugar than you know your body needs or then feels great in the short term, but long term, you know, I would I would be evaluating the impact in my life as whether it's worth it and hopefully it is to, you know, keep trying.
Maureen SoberFitLife (13:39.908)
Yeah. Yeah. I see it nor it usually dissipates. but it's the it's the fear piece that I see, like don't be afraid of any food, you know. Yeah.
Elizabeth (13:45.056)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (13:51.167)
Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, and don't let's ignore that there's tons of fear mongering around sugar and like am I gonna be here and advocate, yeah, go eat tons of added sugar. No, long term that's not great, but also sugar, it's you know, you would have to eat a lot of excess added sugar for a long time for most people to see a significant impact of that. And so in the short term, it it can really be okay. Sometimes, you know,
Maureen SoberFitLife (13:56.282)
Mm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (14:09.743)
Right.
Elizabeth (14:20.606)
In intuitive eating we call it making peace with food. But there a lot of times when people swing between like dieting and restricting and then overeating and binging. What what I'm trying to do is like help get that pendulum to settle in the middle in that in the happy, healthy place. It doesn't mean don't ever eat sugar. It also you don't want to eat like all the sugar all the time. But sometimes you have to sit through that period of eating more than feels good to know
Maureen SoberFitLife (14:23.311)
Mm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (14:32.826)
Mm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (14:45.935)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (14:48.972)
For your brain to know that it's okay, you're not gonna go back to restricting and the sugar is gonna be available, and to feel what it feels like in your body, and then that can help you as long as you don't pull the pendulum back and go back to restricting, eventually we we can help let that pendulum settle out. And so we call it the honeymoon period in intuitive eating. And even as a dietitian, it it's okay if.
Maureen SoberFitLife (15:02.274)
Right.
Maureen SoberFitLife (15:16.186)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (15:16.69)
Maybe you're eating more sweets than we might ultimately like to get you to if if it's in the process of of helping get that pendulum to settle down or helping with your goal of, you know, reducing or eliminating alcohol from
Maureen SoberFitLife (15:31.8)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's getting them out of that I think in both cases, the scarcity deprivation mindset and finding that balance in the case of food.
Elizabeth (15:38.12)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (15:44.49)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously the difference between food and alcohol is you need food to live, you don't necessarily need alcohol to live. So d straight off different, but there are a lot of parallels.
Maureen SoberFitLife (15:52.388)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (15:55.919)
Big one I see is shame. And when people come to me, you know, they think they're the only one and they're embarrassed. And even though I put my story out there for that reason to say, hey, you're not the only one, and it can happen to anybody. but do you see that too? Because there's such this culture of what the women should look like at any age, this shame and judge self judgment.
Elizabeth (15:58.409)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (16:05.879)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (16:11.531)
Mm.
Elizabeth (16:19.68)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I absolutely see shame if you know, shame that maybe this is something that I've been struggling with, or like why does it seem like everyone else can be normal with food, but I can't? Or if shame about body shape or size, especially by the way, right now in the GLP one era where everyone is shrinking.
Maureen SoberFitLife (16:35.983)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (16:42.282)
there can even be now I'm even seeing people like feeling shame if they're choosing not to go on a GLP one. Like, does that mean I somehow care less about my health? if I'm choosing not to make that choice. But yeah, and just shame if people struggle with binge eating or frankly, even after specific food choices, right? It's really common for people to
Maureen SoberFitLife (16:48.758)
yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (16:52.698)
Mm.
Elizabeth (17:05.172)
Eat a meal that they perceive to be quote unquote bad or something they shouldn't eat or less like unhealthy or junk food and then feel a lot of shame about it. And so of course I'm trying to help people. I always say like guilt is not a food group, and we don't need to feel guilt or shame, and bodies are meant to be different shapes and sizes. And can we like try to help people get out of that? And also just help people understand that it's
Maureen SoberFitLife (17:13.326)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (17:19.73)
I love that.
Elizabeth (17:35.498)
You know, it's really difficult to work on improving your health habits if you're struggling with a lot of guilt and shame, right? It sort of shuts down bandwidth and problem solving and all the things. So in my work, so I don't know, I I would imagine it's similar, but self-compassion is a huge piece about it and really teaching people.
Maureen SoberFitLife (17:44.334)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (17:54.511)
Yeah, definitely. Yes. Huge.
Elizabeth (18:00.49)
the importance of it and self compassion as a tool in your toolbox and how powerful it can be.
Maureen SoberFitLife (18:03.822)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, self-compassion absolutely has to be key. And learning how to not default to the the pattern that's been there for a long time. Cause shame says, you know, what's wrong with me? And you use the word normal. Why can't I be normal? Instead of getting curious and saying, you know, what is it about this food? Because we could go down this whole tangent about, you know, hyper processed and palatable food that has been designed to make us crave it and want more.
Elizabeth (18:15.519)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (18:32.032)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (18:36.14)
And so like getting curious and educated, which is what you do, you educate people and and I do the same thing to try to remove the you know, the shaming component and and be more self-compassion. You know, I was I grew up eating TV dinners with my grandmother. I remember watching like Lawrence Welk. I'm really dating myself here now, but and I thought TV dinners are like the coolest thing with the, you know, little apple pie thing and then the mushy turkey and all that stuff.
Elizabeth (18:52.971)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (19:01.501)
Yeah. That's so cute. Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (19:04.674)
Yeah. So w you know, the the c self compassion piece there is like no wonder why I thought that stuff was good and continued to eat crap for a while because I got conditioned to thinking that was good. So you do you find that like helping people kinda look back and here's how these patterns happened and Yeah.
Elizabeth (19:12.725)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (19:21.427)
Definitely, yeah. Under looking back at the the factors that shaped your relationship with food. And I would also say, you know, people may use alcohol as a coping tool, people may use food as a coping mechanism, there may be some other coping mechanism, and they serve a purpose, right? Like that served a purpose for you at a time when you needed. It doesn't necessarily mean it was the healthiest coping tool for you, but it but it did serve a purpose.
Maureen SoberFitLife (19:26.671)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (19:32.26)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (19:47.258)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (19:50.526)
And can you have compassion for the for that and recognize that and and then also build your toolbox of things that may ultimately be more helpful for you. And there doesn't need to be shame and judgment wrapped up in that. You know, we're all No, and we're all humans trying to make our way in the world. And the world is a difficult place.
Maureen SoberFitLife (20:06.351)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because they don't move you forward. They don't move you forward. Mhm. Yeah.
Yeah. I like how you say build your toolbox because two things can be true at once that might have served you at some time. Eating a certain way, even drinking, right? Served you. And then you're starting to have this realization that I think this thing is or the way I'm doing this is no longer serving me. And that's a good place to get to. But then then I find, you know, and that's why you and I put out these messages on social media and stuff, because people are like, Okay, I know this is no longer serving me the way I'm eating.
Elizabeth (20:22.719)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (20:31.616)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (20:35.807)
Mm.
Elizabeth (20:46.291)
Right.
Maureen SoberFitLife (20:46.68)
the way I'm drinking, but I don't know where to start. Yeah. So how do you help people with, you know, where to start?
Elizabeth (20:49.344)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (20:54.335)
So I think the first is just looking at at for me with food, it's really looking at the impact that it's having in your life. If you are struggling with a lot of guilt, if you are struggling, you know, just constantly in and out of a diet, if food is taking up too much brain space or mental energy, if it is an feeling like a negative force in your life.
then that's probably really good information that your relationship with food is not serving you in the best way possible right now. And I imagine it's very similar with your relationship with alcohols, really looking at the impact that it's that it's having in your life. And, you know,
And if you get if you come up with, yeah, you know what, I am feeling a lot of guilt, or I do have a lot of food rules, or I am constantly jumping in and out, or I'm having trouble, like I know what to do, but I can't seem to do it, right? Which is something that I hear a lot. And I I know what I should be eating. I just I'm not doing it and I don't know why. Or I can do it for a little while, but then I fall off track. If you are in those all or nothing patterns
Then that's all an invitation to just get curious and realize that maybe Yeah. Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (22:10.338)
It's information. It's information. If you can flip that that reframe, you know, the guilt is information.
Elizabeth (22:17.045)
Right.
Yes, which and that's something that I say to people all the time is it's you know, I I talk about it as like putting on your food anthropology hat. And if you think about what does an anthropologist do, anthropologists study cultures, but not to judge them. They seek to understand them. And if you can put on that same kind of hat to explore your relationship with food or your relationship with alcohol, just get curious and ask questions.
Maureen SoberFitLife (22:23.746)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (22:30.138)
I love
Maureen SoberFitLife (22:34.894)
Yes. Mm-hmm. I love that.
Elizabeth (22:48.479)
just to gather information, right? And then you can sort of sift through it and figure out what's serving you and what's not serving you. And and that at least gives you the the starting point of understanding where you are.
Maureen SoberFitLife (23:06.52)
Yeah, our our language is so similar. It's it's it's amazing because that mental real estate that is taken up around drinking and making rules, that only continues to get more and more intense as as the drinking continues. You know, like I'll only drink with friends, I won't drink alone, I won't have red because it gives me headaches. I'll only have white, I'll make sure I eat food first. They're you know, and it takes up so much space. And then same thing I would imagine with is someone who binge ate.
Elizabeth (23:30.111)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (23:35.328)
Afterwards, my gosh, why did I do that? What's wrong with me? I'm gonna change. Right.
Elizabeth (23:37.183)
Yeah. I'm never gonna get it. I don't have willpower. What's wrong with me? Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (23:43.193)
Yeah. And then what I find is people are so amazed when they do take a break. And it really has to be the initial break to experiment, to be the anthropologist around alcohol. It has to be about 30 days to start feeling, you know, benefits of sleep and I'm thinking more clearly and I'm less irritable. but also the thing they notice that they're surprised about is I seem to have more time and more space in my brain. Yeah. Cause I'm not
Elizabeth (24:05.363)
Mm.
Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (24:09.592)
thinking about it all the time and making all these rules and then beating myself up.
Elizabeth (24:11.294)
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not constantly negotiating with myself and then berating myself. Same thing happens with food, you know. just something even as simple as like, you know, there are people who maybe believe they're addicted to sugar and they won't buy ice cream because they don't trust themselves to keep it in the house. If it's there, they'll eat all of it and they'll spend all day thinking about it and negotiating with it, and then they get to a point where they can have it in the freezer and it's just another food. It doesn't have that pull over them and it's so the
Maureen SoberFitLife (24:15.598)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (24:43.284)
word that I hear a lot is liberating, like it feels like freedom. but we sometimes joke, like, what what do you do with all that extra time and energy that you now have? And I'm quite certain that there are many things you could put it towards that will be awesome. but you do reclaim it. You reclaim that.
Maureen SoberFitLife (24:45.73)
Mm. Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (25:00.59)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great recognition when people have that. I love seeing that aha moment. You know, 'cause it's not just in the moment when you're eating or you're drinking or you're you're overeating or disordered eating. It's all the before, all the planning, all the after, all the beating yourself up. So it's actually a lot of valuable time.
Elizabeth (25:09.012)
Same, yeah.
Elizabeth (25:19.558)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (25:23.858)
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And it it's life changing. I mean, really, there is no other word for it. It is life changing to reclaim that space, to trust yourself again. and to to find that, you know, in my case, happy, healthy medium. In your case, you know, I'm sure people define that differently, but
Maureen SoberFitLife (25:28.664)
Mm-hmm. It is.
Maureen SoberFitLife (25:48.399)
Yeah, I work with all kinds of people, people who it's a journey, right? Yeah. So it depends where they come in with me, what they've been going through in their life and what their goals are. but for me it was in like a ten year process, truthfully. so I think one of the things I see in disordered eating and alcohol plays a part and especially in women, is they'd rather drink their calories than eat them.
Elizabeth (25:52.484)
Mm. Yeah, it always is. Same with food.
Elizabeth (26:03.652)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (26:08.671)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (26:14.116)
Mm, mm-hmm, mhm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (26:18.072)
And it has so many effects. And I used to do that. You know, I'd go to a restaurant and I'd order two cocktails before I even ate. And then I didn't really want to eat. and by the way, they were healthy cocktails, you know, a potato vodka with no sugar, straight up vodka, basically. You know, but I was telling myself, well, it's the healthiest choice. There's no sugar in it, you know, look at me. Right. but if it impacts eating, nutrient absorption, as you said, and then later you want to eat like pizza.
Elizabeth (26:20.574)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (26:25.456)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Elizabeth (26:31.14)
Skinny Margarita.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (26:39.256)
Yeah, yeah.
Elizabeth (26:47.721)
Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (26:47.854)
You know, later at night. So do you do you see that if you uncover that in your work?
Elizabeth (26:53.738)
yeah, for sure. It's like a calorie displacement, right? Choosing to drink your calories instead of eat them. It doesn't mean that your body doesn't need fuel, right? Your body still needs fuel and that's why we sometimes see nutrient deficiencies in in people who are you know, overusing alcohol.
Maureen SoberFitLife (26:55.194)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (27:09.689)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (27:16.916)
There can be nutrient deficiencies drinking at high risk levels. And it is because of that calorie displacement. But then you're right, often our our inhibitions are lower when we've been drinking, right? And so then you may end up choosing things that you wouldn't normally choose to eat. And so it just sort of has this cascade effect. yeah. Yeah. And
Maureen SoberFitLife (27:32.345)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (27:43.355)
It's good word. Yeah, because then take a person who is struggling with both both issues. So the next morning they're like, Not only did I drink too much, and then I ate, you know, crap late night. And then you know what the answer is then? I just won't eat now. And I'll go work out and sweat it out, right? It's this terrible cycle to be in.
Elizabeth (27:56.094)
Mm.
Yes. yes. Please don't do that. Yup.
Yeah, it is, yeah. And I have nothing but compassion for anyone who finds themselves in that situation. I think it's also important to know that our body your body prioritizes metabol metabolizing alcohol at the expense of food, which is why we sometimes see nutrient deficiencies and absorption issues. Alcohol also is higher calorie, right? There's it's four calories.
Maureen SoberFitLife (28:10.062)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (28:22.382)
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (28:34.746)
in carbohydrates, nine for fat, but it's seven in alcohol. So it's one of the higher calorie thing, even if even if you're getting the lower calorie thing. Not that I my approach to nutrition isn't out calories in and calories out, but I think maybe people don't even know that.
Maureen SoberFitLife (28:41.337)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (28:51.128)
Right. Or that it's empty calories. There's no nutrient value. And then what it does to your gut lining, I really when I stopped drinking, and a lot of times when people do take a break or stop drinking, they're like, Well, how come everything isn't magically better? Well, my gut lining really suffered from alcohol and I had to go through a whole program of healing it with supplements and, you know, removing certain foods at a time, anything that was irritating or inflammatory, till I really got to a place where my gut was healthier again.
Elizabeth (28:53.222)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's no nutrition. Uhhuh. Uhhuh.
Elizabeth (29:11.091)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (29:20.776)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (29:20.898)
You know, so it's really eye opening to see that nothing happens in a vacuum. And mhm. Yeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth (29:25.82)
No, it's all connected. So very much all connected. Physical health, mental health, emotional health, right? It yeah, it just really is.
Maureen SoberFitLife (29:33.302)
Mm. Everything.
Maureen SoberFitLife (29:37.72)
Now hear this a lot, I and I did as a personal trainer, and I'm sure you do. That come to work with you, they're motivated, they're interested, but they're like, But don't tell me I can't drink. Do you hear that?
Elizabeth (29:42.623)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (29:48.914)
Mm-hmm.
specifically with alcohol. Yeah. yeah, sometimes. And I you know, I I believe in meeting people where they're at. And first of all, it's Yes. yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (29:58.286)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (30:04.26)
Sure. No, but it's the it's the protective nature that I'm pointing out. Not that you're gonna tell them what to do, because I don't tell people what to do either. But well, I'll I'll speak to myself personally. again, having been a personal trainer, eating right and everything, but I would not count alcohol. It lived out here. It was like, you know, the elephant in the room. I it just wasn't a part of anything else. Meanwhile, I would split hairs over.
Elizabeth (30:22.927)
yeah.
Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (30:31.204)
Do I have olive oil or seed oil? Which one's more inflammatory? That's what I mean. And you kinda like they're willing to to to be curious and try all the things you're saying. Like, but don't ask me to change this.
Elizabeth (30:32.745)
Yeah. Yep.
Elizabeth (30:43.141)
Yeah, 'cause it's hard to look at this.
Maureen SoberFitLife (30:45.518)
It is. Because it's emotional.
Elizabeth (30:47.601)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (30:49.432)
You know. and I I did some figure contests back in the day, when I was about forty. And the trainer at the time I was working with said, he said, Well, you know you can't drink, right? And I'm like, No, I didn't know that. And and it was strange 'cause I actually when I realized it I felt relief. So that should have been my first bit of information, like, hmm, why do I feel relieved? 'Cause I have now an excuse to say to everybody, Look, I'm gonna get up on stage in this little bikini that's glued on my butt. So
Elizabeth (30:54.473)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (31:09.894)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (31:18.146)
I'm not going to drink for six and eight months at a time. And I felt relief, but I didn't do the deeper work underneath the why. You know, I felt the relief. So it took me a while to get there. But my point I want to say to you is it was an unhealthy body composition being in these contests and kind of warped my brain a little bit. And I only did two of them because I felt, and and I'm not knocking it because it's it, there's a lot of
Elizabeth (31:18.377)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (31:26.789)
Yeah, yeah.
Elizabeth (31:35.613)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (31:46.127)
discipline and dedication. There's a lot of like great things about it. But for me personally, I felt it was not having a good effect on my mental health. Because when I came out of that low body fat and I started to gain weight, as you would, and back to a normal level, or, you know, from my my bone structure and height and everything, I struggled with you know, no. And and I had never really had that. I'm Italian, I eat everything.
Elizabeth (31:55.965)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (32:02.611)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (32:12.02)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (32:15.38)
And but that really changed my view. And it's kinda like the same thing as like reading a bunch of shape magazines, you know, getting on social media, which I'm sure is huge influence of, you know, diet culture. You know, you you see that people, you know, when they lose, say they lose weight and then they gain weight, they feel even more you know, cognitive dissonance between those two things. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (32:15.507)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (32:25.747)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (32:38.803)
Well, a hundred percent. And often, ⁓ just because people are losing weight doesn't necessarily mean, as you just so ill illustrated, that it's in a healthy way, right? And yet you may be getting praised for that weight loss Oh in the world. And that's really confusing for your brain to, ⁓ it just makes it that much harder to realize that maybe and I'm not suggesting or saying that you were, but
Maureen SoberFitLife (32:48.707)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (32:53.011)
yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (32:56.879)
Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (33:00.975)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (33:05.531)
Maybe you're struggling with disordered eating or disordered relationship with exercise, and yet you're getting praised for it. And that's going to make it that much harder to realize that, even. And you know, one of the things that I usually start out doing with people is first of all just educating people on what diet culture is and giving them a name for it. Cause I think it's so normalized and so embedded in our culture that we may not even realize, like, there's this.
Maureen SoberFitLife (33:09.775)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (33:29.518)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (33:35.655)
these influences and beliefs and norms that are un unhealthy actually and really shaping. So giving people a name for it, educating them where it shows up, where they might encounter it, where they might see it. And then encouraging them to get curious about where and how it's showing up in your own life, right? Even that conversation you have around the water cooler of, you know, who's on their latest diet or who's lost how much weight on a GLP one or who's not eating this food because it's quote unquote bad
Maureen SoberFitLife (33:49.05)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (33:57.595)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (34:05.546)
You know, who's only eating salads and raw vegetables or all of those things are diet culture. They're so normalized, but they're definitely diet culture and they definitely impact us and our relationship with food and how we think about our own bodies. And I think probably drinking culture is very similar, right?
Maureen SoberFitLife (34:09.112)
Right. Yes.
Maureen SoberFitLife (34:26.264)
Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. They're because you think about the ads, they're always like these healthy, beautiful, successful people on some yacht or you know, some fancy place and everybody's got alcohol. And so the it's the neural pathway that's like, Well, that's what when you have alcohol, all those things happen and this is what we do. And how will I
Elizabeth (34:30.908)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (34:34.376)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (34:45.769)
and just also how frequently it's served, right? I mean, I started to become aware of that. You know, I was on a a family trip and we were, you know, doing like hiking and and outdoor adventures. And even there was like, okay, now we're like packing the cooler and gonna bring alcohol. Not us, but like the guides. And it just really struck me of wow, even when you're, you know, like out in the middle of nowhere trying to do something completely unrelated to alcohol, there's still alcohol.
Maureen SoberFitLife (34:49.538)
Everywhere.
Maureen SoberFitLife (34:54.116)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (35:01.028)
Mm.
Elizabeth (35:15.399)
like somehow involved. so yeah. Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (35:17.966)
Yeah. We live in an alcohol saturated society. And and so getting back to what you said in the in the beginning, and and and me too, this is what I love to help people with, is helping them to view it in a different lens, a different perspective. So they see things like the word diet culture, even have a something to call it, helps them. And then you can't unsee what you've learned. And then you get to make that informed choice, what's really going to be best for me.
Elizabeth (35:31.719)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (35:37.48)
Yeah.
Yes.
Elizabeth (35:46.782)
Yeah.
Maureen SoberFitLife (35:47.0)
You know, so it's not about telling people what to do or or I I help people get away from words like bad, bad behavior, you know, good behavior, all that.
Elizabeth (35:52.755)
Same
Yeah, it's exactly the same in people's relationship with food. I I do not I'm helping people get away from talking about food in terms of good or bad or healthy or unhealthy or clean or junk and just food equals food. And there can be a place for all of it, right? It's figuring out what your body needs and the how the ratio that you can eat to feel good and support your health of of various different foods. No food is inherently good or bad. It's food.
Maureen SoberFitLife (35:57.551)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (36:24.568)
Yeah, you use the word neutral. How do you how do you explain that? Say that again? Food neutrality. Food neutrality.
Elizabeth (36:26.395)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Food neutrality. So getting to a place of neutral around food. And a simple example is you know, like I'll just take cabbage, right? Cabbage is arguably a nutrient dense, quote unquote, healthy food, right? If I go eating a whole head of raw cabbage later, it might tear up my gut. And therefore, that was not like the most supportive thing I could do for my body.
Maureen SoberFitLife (36:43.023)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (36:48.322)
Mm.
Elizabeth (36:54.981)
so calling it a healthy food is like maybe not just, you know, it's just not that helpful. Likewise, if I have really low blood sugar, and it may be that the best, most, fastest way to get my blood sugar up is to drink a co a Coke or to have a piece of candy, right? Though that's traditionally wouldn't be a quote unquote healthy food, but in that circumstance, it may be the healthiest thing for you. And so
Maureen SoberFitLife (37:10.906)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (37:20.483)
Right.
Elizabeth (37:21.625)
It's a lot more helpful to just get to a neutral place. And when you get to it, Yeah. Yeah. Well, what getting to a neutral place does, it helps quiet that guilt and shame that we talked about, or it helps quiet the health halos on certain foods. and when you can get to neutral, then it allows you to tune in and listen to your body and its needs so much more effectively.
Maureen SoberFitLife (37:25.73)
And the neutral is where the intuitive happens. The in
Maureen SoberFitLife (37:33.37)
Mm.
Elizabeth (37:50.737)
From that place of neutrality. It it basically supports you getting curious and body attunement instead of just these external shoulds and shouldn't and rules and understanding it's new it's very nuanced, right? It's situational, it's individual, every we all have our own bodies, our own health circumstances. And so there's just not a blanket.
Maureen SoberFitLife (38:00.676)
Right.
Maureen SoberFitLife (38:03.992)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Everybody's different.
Elizabeth (38:16.092)
You know, I have a master's degree in nutrition science. There is no perfect diet. It literally doesn't exist. There's no clearly defined. Now there are help more or less helpful dietary patterns, right? What and how you eat most often matters most, but there's, you know, it's just, I just think it's a lot more helpful to be a lot more inclusive and neutral about how we approach it.
Maureen SoberFitLife (38:28.495)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen SoberFitLife (38:40.696)
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I could I mean we could talk for a long time 'cause there's so many avenues you could go down. But what would be your practical takeaway? And especially for this audience, if they're taking a break from alcohol? what would you want them to focus on nutritionally? What kind of recommendations would you make? Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (38:46.53)
Yeah.
Elizabeth (39:01.03)
Yeah, so nutritionally I would say make sure you're eating enough. For most people, that looks like, you know, three meals a day and a snack or two, or five or six smaller days or smaller meals or snacks. There's no quote unquote right way to do it. It's just what works best for you. But make sure you're getting enough is at the bottom of the pyramid. and then from there
Maureen SoberFitLife (39:04.986)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (39:26.032)
think about how you're putting your meals together and can you just try to include a protein source, a carbohydrate source, and you know, a healthy fat. And then I always say, can you make it colorful? Cause that's usually where you'll make sure that you have, you know, fruits or vegetables. And then I would really to kind of like go back to what we were saying at the beginning, recognize that there's different types of hungers, right? There's
Maureen SoberFitLife (39:51.674)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (39:52.691)
Physical hunger where you you know, you physically need food and nutrients. There can be planned hunger hunger, practical hunger. You know, sometimes if you're getting ready to go into a meeting or go somewhere where you can't eat, you may not be able to eat when you're exactly physically hungry, so you need to plan a snack or a meal ahead of time. there's taste hunger, you know, you may just
Have a taste or a hankering for something, and that's okay. That's not bad. Like we're allowed to enjoy our food and eat yummy things. and then there may be an emotional hunger, and it may, you know, maybe you need soothing or comfort or stress relief or distraction or, you know, there can be any number of things that, you know, you may need that are not.
Maureen SoberFitLife (40:18.818)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Boast him.
Maureen SoberFitLife (40:27.225)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth (40:44.37)
physical hunger, but they're just as valid and important.
Maureen SoberFitLife (40:46.084)
that's interesting. Well, guys, as you can see, like we're just scratching the surface. So the great thing is you can reach out to Elizabeth Harris. So you have a free resource called What's Really Driving Your Eating Habits. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Elizabeth (40:59.112)
Yeah, so it's a quiz basically. It's a takes literally two minutes. I think there are seven or eight questions. And it is a quiz to help you understand what's driving your eating pattern. So some of that like more your relationship with food, right? And we all know kind of the things we do that we think are helpful or not helpful, but it might help you understand a little bit more about why you're making the choices that you're making.
And also can tell you a little bit more about your relationship with food. So it's free quiz. It is, I assume you'll drop the link in the show notes, but but yeah, it's a it's a great introduction to understanding a little bit more about your eating patterns and thoughts and feelings that go into them, and then also getting some simple things you can do to begin shifting it, if that would be helpful.
Maureen SoberFitLife (41:33.144)
Yep, it'll be in the show notes and her website.
Maureen SoberFitLife (41:53.176)
Yeah, that's so good. So if you're thinking, well, how do I start? how do I understand these things that Elizabeth's talking about? Definitely take that quiz. And you can also go to her website. It will be in the show notes. And I just want to end on this interesting point, in that we both talk about your relationship with alcohol or food, because it has over time become some sort of a relationship. And we're trying to figure out what would serve you best now in the place you are in now. So it is interesting.
Elizabeth (42:15.4)
Uh-huh.
Maureen SoberFitLife (42:22.82)
when you start using that word and thinking how, you know, what is underneath the craving. So if we leave you with that thought and that question to ask yourself, what is it I'm really craving? And you do a little work on that, you might find out some interesting things about that. But thank you so much, Elizabeth, for being on Sober Fit Life. And I hope everybody go check out Elizabeth's website.
Elizabeth (42:43.634)
Thanks so much for having me.
Maureen SoberFitLife (42:46.403)
Let me get to my little stop button.
