Maureen Benkovich (00:01.122)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Sober Fit Life. I am so excited today. A very special person has agreed to come on my podcast, Trina Dolenz. Trina is one of my clients and I love when clients are willing to come forward and share their experience so that other people can learn and hear what coaching is like, what changing your relationship with alcohol might look like. So I so appreciate Trina being here and I absolutely love working with her.
but I wanna give you some background on Trina and I didn't know a lot of this stuff, but this is so interesting. First of all, if you're looking on camera, Trina is in her 70s, which I don't think anybody would believe, she's beautiful. And she's focused on longevity and health. And I think that's sort of what got her thinking in this whole process and we'll get back to that. But she was curious about what would be possible if she explored her relationship with alcohol, but this time with a coach and with some structure.
You may recognize Trina as a couples therapist and relationship expert trained in the UK and known for VH's one tool Academy. She's also the author of Retool Your Relationship She's been part of the Dr. Drew universe, including hosting Love Line And her life has included raising three daughters, building businesses, and even a chapter married to Mickey Dolenz of The Monkeys! For those of you who like me, who remember watching that show and that band, I love them.
But the reason I'm so glad Trina is willing to share her experience of being coached by me here on SoberFitLife is that she didn't just take a break. She really treated this like a process. She dove into my course, printed out the handouts and the journal, moved through it step by step as it's designed, and each module builds on the next. And it was really exciting for me to see a client really go through it and dig in. Changing your...
relationship with alcohol is a process and it requires agency and personal responsibility. And as a therapist, I witnessed Trina like really understanding that, of course, because that's what she does in her own work. So today, she's here to share with you what she noticed, what surprised her, what it was like to take a mindful break from alcohol with structure and coaching. But Trina, thank you so much for being here. And before we get into the coaching side, would you take us back for a second with your European upbringing?
Maureen Benkovich (02:21.438)
Alcohol was often seen as cultured and sophisticated and even we mentioned nostalgia in your family. We talked about that a lot. What did alcohol mean to you back then and how has that evolved into the relationship you had with it when you first came to me?
Trina Dolenz (02:36.462)
Yeah, well, thank you very much for all of that. And thank you for having me on. It's a delight to be able to talk about the process I went through. Yes, and I'm European from England. So sometimes I think I come from maybe slightly different background. I also came from an alcohol, not an alcoholic, but an alcohol family. My maiden name is Dow from Dow's Port. And so it was a very sort of sophisticated adult
endeavor, drinking alcohol, knowing your alcohol. We were introduced to it by my parents. We were allowed to have a sip on Sundays of red wine. were encouraged to be able to tell the difference between various alcohols. when you helped me think about this, but it was glamorized and a sort of very adult, sophisticated thing to do that when I grow up, I'd be lucky enough to do it myself. So, you know, it was prestigious.
Maureen Benkovich (03:35.008)
Yeah, sophisticated, prestigious, glamorized, romanticized. I hear all of that. And especially the nostalgia piece. That's big for a lot of people because if our parents were doing that and was part of our growing up, it has a lot of fond associations.
Trina Dolenz (03:52.922)
Yes, and it wasn't, I wasn't naughty when I was a teenager. You know, I didn't need to drink because I already had drunk. So I didn't go through university drinking. I started really drinking on a consistent basis with children. And I remember my dad and my mum would sit down the evenings. Dad would have a whiskey and soda. Mum would have a sherry. And that's when they sort of would relax in the evening. So, you know, when I had put my children to bed, then that's what I was going to do. So then it became a consistent, I'm a mum, I'm an adult. Phew, thank God the kids have gone to bed.
Maureen Benkovich (03:56.002)
You
Maureen Benkovich (04:00.204)
Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (04:23.016)
and I then could start to, I would say, consistently drink.
Maureen Benkovich (04:27.052)
So as a reward, sort of, deserve this at the end of the day, being a mom is hard work.
Trina Dolenz (04:32.012)
Yes, yes, yeah, definitely.
Maureen Benkovich (04:33.28)
Yeah, and that becomes ingrained habit. And then flash forward to now you're a grandmother, right? And in your 70s and you you're not putting the kids to bed anymore. But I recall from our coaching, you would say it was a habit just sort of what you did at night. There was some boredom involved. So tell me about that.
Trina Dolenz (04:54.114)
Yes, it was interesting because I would even have little jokes and catch phrases as, you have to drink with childcare. You know, couldn't do childcare without a drink. And so certainly I drank as a granny, you know, and as I, I never drank to excess. I drank, you know, lightly, I would, my problem was consistently. And so I would drink through, you know, childcare, get me through the day. It was my sort of...
Pal and companion probably. It was something that just went, I think it was just more that it was an idea and I've come through talking to you that these are all just perceptions and myths that I thought were real, that this is what you do, this is what you think, this is how you think.
Maureen Benkovich (05:43.958)
Yeah, and thoughts become things, they become real and then they become ingrained in our brain because our brain likes to make everything easy and make it automatic. So over time, it just becomes, yes, this is what I do in the evening when I'm by myself. But what I love is that when you came to me, you were really clear on your goals. And we talked about what you wanted to get out of coaching. Can you share that with people and how maybe it was different working together?
Trina Dolenz (06:14.016)
Yeah, well, this is the big thing with you. I think it was the most wonderful approach that you have. And I don't know you remember, I was so skeptical. I was referred or sort of jazzed up about coming to see you by a doctor I see, Dr. George Gavrilla, who I think is wonderful. And he does my hormones and he's a wonderful man. And a little bit, whatever he thinks is great, I'll take a look at.
Maureen Benkovich (06:26.679)
yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (06:34.54)
He is.
Trina Dolenz (06:43.18)
And when I came to you, I was very skeptical because I don't think there's anybody in the space you're in, I've never heard of anybody who understands somebody like me, who firmly, at the beginning I told you, I don't want to not drink. I want drink in my life. It's not going to go away. And I don't think there's anybody that really, it's either yes or no, on or off. And this lovely idea that, okay, you want to be healthy, you...
Maureen Benkovich (06:55.702)
Yep. Right.
Trina Dolenz (07:11.062)
you know the risks, you and you took a long time explaining to me, but you, there was no shame. was complete understanding that what my goals were and let's get to where you need to go. And that was unique and refreshing. And I was quite skeptical of it to begin with, slowly learned that it's, she's not going to push me one way the other, which was really refreshing, unique, and and consequently it worked.
Maureen Benkovich (07:36.576)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you were definitely skeptical at first and I was curious about where this was gonna go. But what I love is meeting people where they are in their journey. And that's why I say evaluate changing your relationship with alcohol because it is a relationship. You used words like friend and companion. Over time, as we use alcohol, we give it lot of different jobs. It becomes those things. It becomes a relationship.
So taking a look at that relationship and where you want it to go is what I like to help people do. Because I might just be a part of someone's journey or it might be where they stop and or maybe they keep going and continue taking a break. Or you talked about wanting to take a concentrated break and then getting back to moderating. So let's talk about going through the process. So we took a structured break from alcohol.
using the course. And what I loved that you did was you took it very seriously, which I wish everybody would do. You're like, I'm paying for this. I'm spending this time. I'm going to do this. What is it about you that made you really take agency and ownership?
Trina Dolenz (08:37.549)
You
Trina Dolenz (08:49.774)
Well, that is me now. I don't think that was me all my life. Certainly it is me now. If I say I'm going to do something, I do it properly. Maybe I'm sort of goody two shoes. I'm, you know, teacher's pet. I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do. But also, yes, my money matters to me and my health and my goals and intentions. So if I set my mind to something, I am going to do it and I'm going to do it properly. Because how could I say at the end of it, it didn't work if I didn't do it properly?
Maureen Benkovich (08:51.842)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (08:57.59)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (09:01.76)
Ha ha!
Trina Dolenz (09:19.63)
I could wholly blame you, oh, it was a load of rubbish. I needed to do it completely to know what to get out of it. Otherwise, there's no measure of it. So I had to go into it fully.
Maureen Benkovich (09:21.954)
Right?
Maureen Benkovich (09:31.552)
Yeah, and you did and I love that. I love that. You downloaded the journal because I've supplied journals so you can write your thoughts. Some of the lessons have worksheets. And when you do those things, when you write things down, pen to paper, you get things out of your brain and onto paper, it helps it become more real and helps retrain your brain, which is what I try to focus on a lot is helping you become informed and it changes your brain chemistry. What stuck with you the most in that?
kind of thinking about changing your brain chemistry and the effect of alcohol on your brain chemistry. What helped you there, if at all?
Trina Dolenz (10:07.374)
Well, yes, you have a very structured module, know, that was easy to follow and you click and then you see a video and then you have the tools, the journaling. I hate writing anything down. I took the first look at it and thought, gosh, I'm not going to write all this rubbish down. And, I hated it. But of course, I, being a therapist, I know journaling, writing down is actually an incredible part of learning. So although I hated it and found it
Maureen Benkovich (10:24.374)
Ha ha.
Trina Dolenz (10:37.198)
tried to get out of it and tried to belittle it. I knew that I needed to do it. And it was quite interesting that it did make a difference. It pinned things down. So it did for me, you some people do like to write. I found that difficult, but it also helps sort cement some of the areas that actually I was really looking at differently. the, mean, we'll talk about it again and again, I'm sure, but the biggest thing was a slight...
change on your slogan or something, but it was mindfully not drinking. I know you talk about sort of mindless drinking, but I was very mindful of my not drinking and what it meant to me and how, and writing that down made me think. And that started my journey of thinking, which I think I've never thought about, why I drink and when I drink and how I drink.
Maureen Benkovich (11:11.298)
Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (11:33.826)
I just thought, well, a drink, of course you do, you know, it's lovely.
Maureen Benkovich (11:36.066)
Right. Because you shared that you had taken other breaks. You had taken other 30-day, even longer breaks, but you never really thought about it while you were taking a break from alcohol. You just kind of did it. It was willpower. It was done. But this was different because you actually took a look at everything you just said. Why were you drinking? What were your habits? What were your triggers? Is a word I use. And how you could make changes.
Trina Dolenz (12:03.212)
Yes, that was the biggest difference. As I said, I've taken a year off, three months. And as I've got older, it takes a shorter time for me to be drinking at the same level again, as I start. But I took no notice of when I wasn't drinking. When I don't drink, after about four days, I've forgotten it, don't care about it. I do the break, marvellously, straight back to where I was again. And this was very different. You helped me, for one thing, put in different rituals and
realize what, maybe we'll talk about this later, but why alcohol is also so appetizing and what it means. Because for me, was even more than, it was as well as the dopamine hit. It was a lot of things that go with it that I've been able to replace and I still do it. It's quite interesting. You've changed habit, but I think I was doing it mindfully. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (12:54.188)
Yeah, let's talk about that now. Let's talk about that because you were brilliant because it was over the holidays. So you went to all the parties, all the celebrations, but you had replacements. So yeah, let's talk about that because you were so creative. I was really impressed. I'm impressed.
Trina Dolenz (13:11.406)
Well, for me, it was very important to talk about it. That's another reason. As long as I had sort of blabbed to enough friends, that would be enough to also make me realise that I had to make this work. You know, I was putting it out there. That was important part. But yes, I never realised that there was no way I wasn't going to drink loads of glasses of wine that were being poured into my glass at a dinner table at someone's house.
Maureen Benkovich (13:27.394)
That's key.
Maureen Benkovich (13:40.428)
Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (13:40.866)
And I just keep drinking it because I quite like the sort of, know, and unless I took charge of that, that was just going to happen. And I'd never thought about that ever that I had to. And so now what I do is I bring a very pretty glass container, which contains two, two glasses of the wine that I like, because I'm quite fussy. So I only like my wine. So I load it up with that and I put it on a table or in a kitchen. So it's right in front of me.
And it looks pretty, no one's going to get upset that I bought something that looks horrid. And that's what I'm going to drink. And I also bring fizzy water in case somebody says, we haven't got any fizzy water, because I hate water. And I realized, you know, yeah. And I did it like the other night, I went to a bar and I had my one cocktail and I told the bartender to give me some fizzy water, because they always put water with your drink. I'm never going to touch that. I hate it. I never do.
Maureen Benkovich (14:22.824)
Mm-hmm. You said you hate it water. I remember that in the beginning. Hate water.
Maureen Benkovich (14:36.96)
Right. Right.
Trina Dolenz (14:40.258)
but he put a beautiful glass of fizzy water on the bar as well. So I drank it all and I had a second one.
Maureen Benkovich (14:45.942)
Yeah, yeah. And while you were taking the break, you brought your own kind of mocktail creation. I thought that was so important because a lot of people are like, I can't do that. That would be rude. What will the hostess think? I'm not being a good guest. Can you address those kinds of concerns and how that worked for you?
Trina Dolenz (15:05.07)
Well, I should have been in mocktail sales or something, you know, actually branded my own mocktail because I went to a party where there was actually some ones in cans and I was sort of staggered to find out how expensive they are. And it's funny because I will spend money on a cocktail at a bar, but, oh my God, I'm not spending, you know, six dollars just for a bit of fizzy, fizzy something in a can. And I thought, well, I read the instructions, the ingredients. I thought, oh, I can make that. So I brewed it up on my stove.
Maureen Benkovich (15:07.968)
Yeah, you should.
Maureen Benkovich (15:17.291)
and sugar.
Trina Dolenz (15:34.296)
And it was Christmas, so it was cloves and star anise and all sorts of lovely vanilla essence and ginger. And I made a sort of potion. And then I told all my friends about it. They all wanted to taste it and they liked it. They wanted some. So, know, sort of making it fun.
Maureen Benkovich (15:35.938)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (15:46.208)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I share that. Exactly. That's what's so important is you made it fun. You shared with other people. You brought something. It was an icebreaker, a topic of conversation. People tried it and you stuck with your commitment.
Trina Dolenz (16:05.294)
Actually, all my friends drink a lot. You know, don't think anybody's, you know, they don't drink till they fall over, they just drink a lot. They were all curious and all quite sort of, ooh, what's that about? Maybe I'll have a go at that. You know, they were all intrigued, actually.
Maureen Benkovich (16:21.75)
Yeah, yeah, and you shared that. So that was so good. Now, that was impressive. Going to parties, events and using replacements. There was also another kind of time that was challenged for you is when you're home alone at night and you also worked on those replacements. But what did you discover about that kind of habit of drinking at home alone? I know that was the big one you wanted to change.
Trina Dolenz (16:47.402)
Yes, that's the one that I think that would have made, can make the biggest difference because it would be the night off when I don't drink at all. And of course it was every night because I was out or home. And that's the one I wanted to stop and I still stuck to it, that I don't drink in the house. So that's kind of, you know, stopped that. And it really was that it was my companion. I live alone. I love being on my own, but you know, once I've sort of finished for the night, get on the couch, watch the telly.
Maureen Benkovich (16:51.884)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (17:17.354)
it was lovely to have my friend companion a lovely cocktail or a glass of wine. And it's just as nice to have my, I've got some special sort of potion thing I put with fizzy water, or I have a ginger beer, or I have a non-alcoholic beer, or I just have Perrier. But it has to be, we always discovered it has to be in a lovely glass. So I always make sure, and I pick, go, ooh, that one, ooh no, I think I'll have that one.
Maureen Benkovich (17:40.097)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (17:44.962)
And I make a little fuss about what kind of glass. And the other thing you taught me, which was sort of weird, I'd just come back from China actually, and I'd spent a lot of time drinking tea without milk, which, you know, for English person is weird. But I thought, they're doing it, I'll do it. And so I came back with all the Chinese tea, and now I'll still do it sort of every other day. I have a pretty teapot, and I have a beautiful little teacup, because they drink in teeny little cups.
Maureen Benkovich (17:57.548)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (18:13.665)
Right.
Trina Dolenz (18:13.966)
tiny cups and I will have a whole pot of tea and on the go and I'll just do my tea, maybe ginger, maybe lemongrass, but that's a ceremony and it looks pretty, it fills the specialness, it's my little treat and I can do it at three o'clock, you know, and it won't give me blurred thinking. So it's a really good replacement, a better replacement.
Maureen Benkovich (18:24.674)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (18:33.483)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (18:40.898)
So that was a big reframe to still have the ritual and the ceremony and the pretty glass, but not with the neurotoxin of alcohol in it. And you found out you enjoyed teas, you enjoyed if it's in a pretty glass and there's the ceremony. But what you did was you were willing to go through the discomfort of giving those things a try. And that's the important thing.
Trina Dolenz (19:07.104)
Yes, and for me, it wasn't discomfort because I have a switch that is either on or off. I'm doing this or I'm not doing it, so I'm not drinking. That was a sort of given. So as I'm not drinking, that's my time to look for other things. But I think also for people like me, I kind of feel very excited about there is an awful lot of people who just want to moderate.
Maureen Benkovich (19:14.304)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I saw that.
Trina Dolenz (19:31.118)
And if you tell them they have to give up alcohol for life, they'll never go near any kind of a therapy or they won't want to enter. But because that you're not shut up in a box with, oh dear, I can never drink again. I mean, who knows, maybe one day you don't, you know, but the fact that you allow yourself, I'm allowing myself the fact that no, that's not going to happen. I am going to drink, the process of sort of exploration. And then I think there's so many people who would benefit from what you do who
Maureen Benkovich (19:42.69)
Mm-hmm.
Right? Exactly.
Maureen Benkovich (19:56.278)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (20:00.982)
are not people who trying to give up drinking for good. And it works. I'm still doing it and I am shocked. I mean, I'm still skeptical, but it's working and it's still working.
Maureen Benkovich (20:13.89)
Yeah, because you take away the words always and never and get rid of future casting, you know, because we're not focused on that. You came in, you said, my goals are, I would like to not drink at home alone and I would like to be able to moderate when I'm out. So we work toward those goals and if I hear you correctly, you are still not drinking at home alone. You're still sticking with your replacement ceremony. So that's incredible. You have made a big cutback in drinking alcohol. And when you go out,
Trina Dolenz (20:32.931)
Yeah.
Trina Dolenz (20:40.585)
Huge cut back.
Maureen Benkovich (20:41.666)
Yes, and this is all good. Cutting back on alcohol is such a good thing for your health, which is your overall concern about your brain health and longevity. And you did it and you're doing it.
Trina Dolenz (20:56.754)
Yes, and it was, to me, it didn't feel like a lot. I think a lot of people can do this and would benefit enormously. And I don't think there's a space for it. There's just, when you're talking, we want to say something about my age, know, I'm sure we talk about that, but all of the podcasts about health and longevity and everything are all about these 30 year olds trying to get to my age. And then when they get to my age, it's like, oh, thank God I got 70. Well, what about 70 to 100?
Maureen Benkovich (21:02.818)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (21:24.918)
That's right.
Trina Dolenz (21:25.41)
And no one's thinking about that. So if you go the whole distance, that's a long time.
Maureen Benkovich (21:30.24)
Yeah, and you were thinking you do a lot of things to take care of yourself. And you were willing to look at this one thing and you're like, I know this is quote unquote, not good for me, but why? And what if I did make this change in my 70s? How will that affect my future self five years, 10 years from now? And that curiosity piece is what led you to doing this exploration with your relationship with alcohol.
Trina Dolenz (21:54.124)
Yes, and I don't think there's very much research on, you know, what an 80 year old brain does between 80 and 90. But you certainly know it's not good. I mean, you don't have to be a genius to know that on top of being healthy in other respects, this cannot be a good piece of the puzzle. You can't be, you know, an amazing health fanatic and then smoke cigarettes. know what I mean? We know that that you can't put one of those on top of what you're trying to do. So it seemed to me an obvious thing that I had to rein it in to.
Maureen Benkovich (22:03.146)
Right, right.
Trina Dolenz (22:24.008)
level that was, you know, it's not perfect obviously but it's manageable.
Maureen Benkovich (22:30.784)
Yeah, well, we know perfection is unattainable. So it's really just what you're trying to work toward, but you're still being observant. And we did talk about, okay, you're to go back out and moderate. What will the red flags be? What are your non-negotiables? What will happen if you find yourself drinking back to the level that you were before? Could you share some of those thoughts?
Trina Dolenz (22:54.006)
It's interesting because I sort of feel, often think about this, I can say that to my clients, you can't not know what you know. And once you know it, it's there. So it seems sort of almost unthinkable that I would go back to where I was because I know what I need to do. And I've got all the tools in my toolbox to fix that myself. But obviously if that started to happen, I'd come whizzing back to you.
Maureen Benkovich (23:19.51)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (23:22.83)
and we'd have a top up. But, you know, I've got all the tools that are needed. And I understand. I've got mechanisms to pull that back, you know, get the teapot out. You know,
Maureen Benkovich (23:24.802)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (23:35.351)
Yes.
Yeah. And that's my goal as a coach through the course is to help you build a toolbox. So I love that you use that word because you have a lot of different tools for different situations. But the key with you, Trina, is that you were willing to try things. You were willing to try things and be like, I like this one, I don't like this one. And we kept building your toolbox specific to you.
Trina Dolenz (24:00.118)
Yes, yes, because I think you helped me understand what it was and what my relationship was. I don't think I'd ever thought about the ritual or, you know, why it matters to me. But we dug deep into what it looks like and what alcohol and why and when and, you know, what was the glamour and where did it come from? And you sort of debunked a lot of myths that I was holding on to. And it's still, I still...
feel quite, can feel quite snooty about alcohol, you know. I still think that I know more than I do about various things, you know. But it's, it's, but I know what it is, you know, and it's for me, it's okay, it's, it's, you know, one glass of wine, thank you very much. I know what I'm dealing with, and I know what I want to take out of it.
Maureen Benkovich (24:31.839)
He
Maureen Benkovich (24:51.776)
Yeah. And just to be fair for people who are listening, sometimes people have this exact goal. They come in, they work with me, they go back out and then they come back and they say, you know what, I'm not, I'm not moderating. I need to do this again, dig a little deeper. And it's a process. Most people didn't get to this place where they want to seek out coaching and change their relationship with alcohol overnight. We didn't get to this place where we're drinking too much overnight. So it's a process to unwind it. And everybody's at a different place.
in this journey. And that's an important thing, I think, as a coach. I like to see that when we first talk, like, okay, Trina wants to do this and so-and-so wants to do this. And as a coach, it's challenging and interesting to try to meet people in those various places.
Trina Dolenz (25:37.474)
Yes, and you're right, it's not a failure to come back. I mean, I say that to my clients too. It's a top up, it's a, we call it MOT in England, when you put your car in for servicing, you you need serviced, you need to have things sort of reiterated and, you know, just reinforced. And that's part of the process.
Maureen Benkovich (25:39.851)
No.
Maureen Benkovich (25:57.526)
Yeah. What overlaps did you see with therapy and coaching and how did that help you in your own process as we work together?
Trina Dolenz (26:06.83)
Well, that I found fascinating. think I've shared that with you that I found that I sort of realized how skeptical it was. And I think I said to you, well, I know that, you you're just telling me something I already know. How can that how's that going to work? And I realized that's the skepticism and skepticism I have from my clients. How come just talking about it works? But there is something that goes on between, you know, in the ether between us, the sort of
you are in a suggestive state. There's something about knowing when you come together with someone who's a coach or a therapist or whatever, there's a form of vulnerability and submission and sort of interaction that allows you to allow some of the changes. So it was interesting to watch my skepticism and to sort of fight with it a little bit.
And the ability, you know, I can act, I think I look like I'm being vulnerable or saying the right words, but it's whether I've actually opened that door or not. And that was very easy to do with you. I didn't feel, was nothing that made me go, ooh, you know, hold on, this isn't quite safe enough here. It was a very safe environment where I felt I could say anything and be anything, which is very important. So we call it the therapeutic alliance.
Maureen Benkovich (27:21.334)
Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (27:31.21)
and that was just built from the get-go.
Maureen Benkovich (27:31.33)
Hmm.
Yeah, thank you. I love that. That means a lot to me coming from you and that is what I try to provide and especially as a person who went through it myself and wanted to change my relationship with alcohol for my own reasons, I was able to, you I know how important it is to have that safe environment. So thank you. That's exactly what I want to provide. What do you see in your own...
practice, have you seen how alcohol has affected relationships, marriage, even self-esteem? Is there anything that you've seen in your own practice that now you think about maybe differently having done this work?
Trina Dolenz (28:09.57)
Well, yes, it's there. It's interesting because as a couples therapist, we're technically not supposed to therapy couples where there's alcohol going on at the time, which of course is stupid because of course no one's going to tell you, nor are you, they're the people who need some help, you know, but because it alters your state of mind, it doesn't accentuate anything or de-escalate, it's just different. And so therefore you're therapying something that's not real.
Maureen Benkovich (28:18.722)
Right.
Trina Dolenz (28:39.342)
But we class it as the third thing in the relationship. It's the triangle. So it's the same as the mistress or the mother-in-law. Yes. It dilutes the relationship. So you're basically, if you're drinking, you're having a relationship with the drink and you're excluding your partner. And then it goes to an altered state. really...
Maureen Benkovich (28:48.95)
Right? It's the relationship. Yeah. The mistress.
Trina Dolenz (29:06.266)
And we're not supposed to therapy people are having an affair. Well, half the time you probably don't know. And maybe they're not going to tell us either. but once you create a triangle, it's very hard then to make changes in the the DIAD one on one. So you and I were talking one on one, I could change, you could do something to help me change. Put a position like a stool. If you just took one leg out of the stool, it would fall over, put the
Maureen Benkovich (29:11.426)
Mm-hmm.
Trina Dolenz (29:35.672)
third leg in, it supports it, so that alcohol supports the status quo. So actually you don't get any movement.
Maureen Benkovich (29:37.484)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, that's so important that you brought that up because a lot of times people come to me and they're like, I'm scared to stop drinking because my husband and I or my spouse or partner and I, we started drinking together. And I want to change, but I don't know what that's going to do to the relationship because it was built on or in drinking. I felt that way. I was scared because my husband and met at a bar and we drank well together and drank a lot together, but I knew for my own mental health, I needed to change.
And so the communication with your partner, your spouse is so important. I need to do this for me. It's important not to try to change the other person, but I need your support. You don't have any comments there?
Trina Dolenz (30:22.284)
Yes, and in your situation, well, you did well to move through that because actually that you often find that when you do stop, one stops, that you're with the wrong person in a way, because the relationship was built on a completely different set of scenarios. So it is very dangerous and worrying that if I see people who met at college and they were drinking like fish and then they're 30 something and they stop and they don't even know each other and they really don't think they like each other.
Maureen Benkovich (30:33.73)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (30:49.238)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (30:51.232)
So it is a big step to when, it's built originally on drinking, but then you get somebody who reverts to drink, you know, because of circumstances.
Maureen Benkovich (30:53.815)
Yes.
Yes, because we-
Right, and I've seen that happen because we think and we've been taught by big alcohol industry and all that we're inundated with all the messages that it's a connecting substance, but it's not. It's actually one of the most disconnecting substances on the planet and the science is just after two drinks, your prefrontal cortex goes offline, we call it flipping your lid, and you're not using the logical adult
responsibility decision making part of your brain anymore. Now your animal amygdala is taking over and emotions. And that's why at the end of the night, you see people, you know, crying at the end of the bar or getting in fights and that kind of thing, because the logical part of your brain has gone offline. So it's really not connecting.
Trina Dolenz (31:34.935)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (31:41.442)
No, it's very disconnecting. I think, you know, two people taking marijuana together can feel that they actually enter the same sort of space. They think that they are connected. There's something about that drug, I don't know, that makes them feel connected. When two people drink, you just sort of go off all over the place. And so there is no connection. And as you say, that's when you then have fights and, you know, just disagreements that are based on nothing because you're just like stars in the sky going all over the place.
Maureen Benkovich (32:10.24)
all over the place.
Trina Dolenz (32:10.444)
So it's very disruptive. But again, know, one little drink in the evening together, I'm sure is very cozy. But when one partner drinks, it's basically they might as well have gone off with a mistress really.
Maureen Benkovich (32:17.954)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (32:23.574)
Yeah, that's such a good way to put it. Yeah. Well, back to your coaching experience. What if your friends or someone is listening to this podcast, would you share with them what you think about coaching now as someone who came in very skeptical but was still willing to try and would you recommend coaching with me to change your relationship with alcohol?
Trina Dolenz (32:26.05)
Yeah, yeah.
Trina Dolenz (32:45.902)
Oh my goodness me, yes. And that's why I'm on the podcast. I've told everybody I know. I actually think you might even have a queue around your front door. I tell everybody about it. My sister, my people in Australia. I mean, because you're on Zoom, I guess anybody in any part of the world, there's no restriction. I have people in England. I talk about it. And I think they find it quite fascinating because I'm me and I'm a
Maureen Benkovich (32:48.226)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (33:02.018)
Mm-hmm, yes, all over the world.
Trina Dolenz (33:15.192)
therapist as well. Trina, you what, you mean you talk to somebody about, know, and yes, I think, and I think I all my friends who would, you know, respect or I'm not an idiot. Do you know what mean? I think they would take it seriously that it actually was very beneficial. And anybody who knows me now can see that that's changed. Absolutely. It's something that I think...
Maureen Benkovich (33:30.945)
Right.
Trina Dolenz (33:40.97)
everybody who thinks that they drink too much, the same way as if you eat too much, you take too many, whatever you're doing, everybody goes to the gym. Why would you not have a coach to sort out, you know, that you're drinking a little too much, bring it back. And that's where I think the space for me that you cover is so important. It's not AA. It's, how do you want to tailor your drinking?
Maureen Benkovich (34:07.02)
Yes, exactly.
Trina Dolenz (34:08.545)
I mean, I make a joke that you could go if you drink red wine and you want to change to white wine. I'm sure you could help somebody do that. I mean, I know that's not your remit, but I mean, I'm just, it is so non-judgmental and it is so unique and it's so tailored to what the person wants. And you embraced me because I didn't really check a lot of boxes. I still sleep well and I don't miss alcohol. I didn't feel a lot of the things that you're supposed to feel.
Maureen Benkovich (34:14.38)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (34:22.124)
Thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (34:31.988)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (34:36.29)
Yeah, at first I thought, this is going to be challenging. But I will say one story stood out for me, if you wouldn't mind sharing as we wrap this up, because you weren't a person who would wake up in the morning and not feel well, but you had a moment with your grandchildren. You were watching them and taking care of them and you were noticing you were more present in general, just because you had taken this break. I'm not saying you were drinking with your grandchildren. I'm just saying you were noticing your clarity.
And could you just, do remember that moment when you were sharing that? Cause it was kind of an aha for you.
Trina Dolenz (35:10.67)
It was, and I think just generally I found it in other situations too, because I'm interested in longevity, not drinking slows down time. And there's this question of sort of boredom, but it actually brings you into the present moment and therefore slows down time so that then it's slower. So there I am with the grandchildren and so and so is whining and whining and someone's crying.
but isn't it amazing? I'm alive, I've got my grandchildren, this is a moment to be cherished, I'm gonna be dead soon one day. So it slows everything down into gratitude and the moment. Whereas I think drink is a slight number and a buffer and well, what's it, well, never mind, we'll be fine tomorrow. It can help you sort of skate through a bit.
Maureen Benkovich (35:42.018)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (36:00.439)
Yes.
Trina Dolenz (36:03.67)
And so it helps you stay in the moment. To me, it slows down time, which means you enjoy it more and you're more grateful of everything going on around you. Even the boring moments, they're not boring because you're alive.
Maureen Benkovich (36:14.144)
Yes, yeah, yeah, that was it. You were just so present and you were enjoying that moment of being grandmom, you know, and enjoying being with your kids, even in the whiny moments, you know, you had a good time. And I remember that.
Trina Dolenz (36:25.046)
Yes, yes. the drink sort of, you know, before I would have said the drink highlighted that and it made it fun and it'd be laughing more and it'd be more, but that's kind of veneer. It feels like that that's funnier and more exciting and more fun, but it's actually not. The reality is the better side of that coin.
Maureen Benkovich (36:41.484)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. A facade.
Maureen Benkovich (36:52.396)
Well, that's a great way to end. The reality is the better side of that coin. And you're continuing your journey of moderation. You're being really mindful. You've met your goal of not drinking at home alone and you're continuing to moderate while you're out and you're spreading the good news. So I love that. Is there anything else that you want to share with our SoberFitLife audience?
Trina Dolenz (36:55.982)
you
Trina Dolenz (37:08.728)
Yeah.
Trina Dolenz (37:13.45)
No, not at all, but just thank you so much for everything you've done. And I think you're wonderful. I hope there's many more people that I know certainly that would use your skills and thank you for everything you've done to me and helped me see. It's been a life changer and I'm sure I'll keep it for a long, time.
Maureen Benkovich (37:31.01)
Longevity. Well, thank you for being willing and curious. I do always ask this signature question. What do you do to be sober fit?
Trina Dolenz (37:42.806)
I will just, think the word I just said really is that I try to stay in the moment and be grateful for being alive. I continue to remind myself of where I am, where I am in life and the gratitude for that and that I want that to be, you know, sort of highlighted and slowed down. So that's what I do. That's, that's what brings me back to the moment to stay where I am, you know, sober and fit.
Maureen Benkovich (38:10.262)
Stay present, I love that. One more thing, if people want to find you, Trina, for couples therapy or find your book, how can they reach out to you? Do you have a website? Where do they find you?
Trina Dolenz (38:11.714)
Well, present, yes.
Trina Dolenz (38:21.42)
Yes, have a couple, it's couplestherapydc.com and there's couplestherapyanapolis.com is my website. So you can find everything you need to know about me on those two websites.
Maureen Benkovich (38:32.822)
Wonderful. We'll have that in the show notes. So thank you again. And if this episode resonated with you or you would love a friend to hear it, maybe a friend who's a female in their seventies needs to hear this good news, please share it. And thanks again and follow SoberFitLife. Thank you. Thanks, Trina.
Trina Dolenz (38:48.12)
Thank you.
