Maureen Benkovich (00:01.208)
Welcome to Sober Fit Life. I am so excited today for my guest and my friend, Heather Morse. We go way back. Actually, she just reminded me before recording how far back we actually go. We used to cross paths. What? You said 2008, was it?
Heather Marie Morse (00:16.852)
Yeah, 2008, 2009.
Maureen Benkovich (00:19.15)
2008, 2009, we were both living in a different area and we connected through, was teaching Pilates and we kind of connected through that. And then we both moved over to another town, the same town, and we were drinking and I would see her at bars and either one of us would be drunk. then we actually lived in the same building for a while and I was like, cool, I have a drinking buddy. I remember that. But the interesting thing was,
We were both going through our journey and we were both struggling and trying to look like we had it all together on the outside. So now we're reconnecting from a totally different place, one that doesn't revolve around booze or blurry nights or pretending that everything is fine. And it's just like being real, but it's crazy our timing. So this conversation is about what becomes possible when you finally stop numbing out and start getting honest with yourself.
Heather Marie Morse (00:56.822)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (01:19.018)
and your life. So welcome, Heather Morse.
Heather Marie Morse (01:23.037)
Thank you for having me. It's so awesome to connect with you and just reminisce a little on, wow, if you told me back in 2009, 2011, 12, like we'd be sitting here doing this, we probably would have had a drink to that.
Maureen Benkovich (01:26.837)
It is.
Maureen Benkovich (01:39.476)
Right. We'd be like, no, why are we not going to be drinking? Yeah. Well, I want to share a little background with Heather because she's so interesting. So she's a former pharmacist turned yoga teacher and now an intuitive guide who supports others in living with more alignments than she found that herself and meaning her alcohol-free journey opened the door to a more grounded intentional life. And I can relate to that. Through her work, she helps others reconnect with themselves during midlife transitions and beyond. And I'll let her take it from there.
Heather, can you start just like sharing some of your story? Like we were just talking about in 2008, I had my own fitness and Pilates studio, but I was binge drinking on the weekends. So I was trying to act like, you know, I was this healthy person, but on the weekends, I knew I was living totally out of alignment with my values and what I was teaching other people to do. So what was going on for you at that time? You said you knew that's kind of when your journey started.
Heather Marie Morse (02:19.604)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (02:38.67)
2008 or 2009.
Heather Marie Morse (02:40.277)
Yeah, I had started to have some health issues where, for one, I couldn't drink like I used to. The hangovers got worse. I was always a sensitive kid, back to child. You eat like a bird, something would upset my stomach. Always the one needing the...
fragrance-free detergents and like, pain in the ass, right? so, sorry, am I allowed to swear here? Yeah, so I was a hypersensitive kid and when we age, hormones start fluctuating, even if you don't realize it, then the volume started getting really turned up on that. And so what do you do? Well, let's medicate it. Let's just, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (03:07.95)
Before that was even a thing,
No, your laughs it.
Maureen Benkovich (03:21.249)
huh.
Maureen Benkovich (03:32.408)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (03:35.518)
you know, that was a big part of the problem. And yes, am I sensitive to a lot of foods? Of course, like that's just my composition, you know. But I started getting into yoga. Actually, I went to the Pilates class, but they switched the teachers at the same, at the last minute. And I accidentally went to yoga and I just got hooked. I got the yoga bug and.
Maureen Benkovich (04:00.47)
Way back then is when you first started yoga? Okay.
Heather Marie Morse (04:03.035)
Yeah, was probably my first class was 2008. Well, no, like in the 90s, I did it to like on the tape. I wrote like a fossil on the tapes. Yeah, I would do like Sean Corn, who's still one of my favorite teachers. I would use her tapes. But, you know, like sometimes go to a class when I was single, but then.
Maureen Benkovich (04:06.742)
Okay. Tapes. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (04:26.453)
know, 2008, it got more mainstream. You could find it in a lot of local gyms and things like that. So I ended up back in yoga by accident and I was just, oh my gosh, this feels so good. It was like, you know, kind of like a little bit of a runner's high. You get that yoga because the body just releases, whether it's storing whatever kind of stress, whether it's physical stress or like emotional or mental.
Maureen Benkovich (04:34.19)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (04:55.229)
or even like spiritual stress and that I want to touch on those like four parts like through our conversation but that's yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (04:56.878)
Yeah. But let's stay with your story for a minute. So you're introduced to yoga, but you're still drinking. You're going through a difficult time, a difficult period, a divorce.
Heather Marie Morse (05:05.459)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (05:09.075)
Correct. You know, married someone I met in a bar under incredible drinking circumstances, which is a different lens when you slow your drinking down, like I said, those physical, but he did not. And so we weren't really on the same trajectory anymore.
Maureen Benkovich (05:18.636)
Yeah, happens a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (05:26.721)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (05:33.429)
And I call that period like my first mini spiritual awakening. And I realized, to go back to your intro, I got everything I wanted when I was a kid. I grew up as a child of a divorce, which was kind of rare in the 70s in my town. Yeah, and so I thought like, oh, the...
Maureen Benkovich (05:52.95)
Right, definitely.
Heather Marie Morse (06:00.231)
the thing that complete me will be the husband and the kids and the white picket fence. Perfect, right? And the Christmas card. Everything's just like, I used to match my kids. Which if you do that, no judgment, but they did not want to be matched. Some kids like to be matched, mine did not.
Maureen Benkovich (06:04.76)
perfect marriage.
Maureen Benkovich (06:14.958)
Right. And from the outside looking in, when I met you, I would have said you had that.
Heather Marie Morse (06:23.571)
Right? But it, and I was grateful, totally happy. you know, I knew I had a lot, lot to be thankful for, but there was something missing. And, you know, sometimes it's like, be careful what you wish for, because you get it, but it's like, have to be really specific to the universe sometimes. Like, it's like, yeah. And so,
Maureen Benkovich (06:35.598)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (06:51.345)
It curled and I just got, when physically I started not feeling well, it was really, really difficult to keep up the image. Like it was really difficult to keep, exhausting, so exhausting.
Maureen Benkovich (07:03.232)
Yeah, yeah, it's exhausting. And were you drinking to keep up the image, even though drinking wasn't sitting well with you? Were you drinking to numb and try to keep up the image?
Heather Marie Morse (07:16.533)
For a couple years I did that, you know, was pretty hard to go like crazy wild because I had some responsibilities and stuff. But like, I noticed it was a problem when like, whenever you start like making excuses to yourself, sneaking, know, putting alcohol where it shouldn't be kept just because you don't want people watching you, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (07:18.232)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (07:45.173)
There was just like lots of little signs like that. then, yeah, so then the marriage fell apart and there was relief for sure. Like I didn't have to hide. I could be myself again. And my drinking actually really, really cut down. Like I was in a period where I was really, really strong and like looking forward to the future. It was a different future than I'd imagined, but I was good, you know?
Maureen Benkovich (07:51.342)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (08:11.084)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (08:14.862)
Then life got hard. There was a series...
Maureen Benkovich (08:16.664)
Well, yeah, then let me just put in a marker there and then flash forward. Both of you and I moved over to a different town. And I don't know about you, but that where I live now, my drinking ramped up because there's like 88 bars in this town that I can walk to literally. And it was, you could drink any day, any time, anywhere. There's always something, a party going on.
Heather Marie Morse (08:21.502)
correct.
Heather Marie Morse (08:39.27)
and be responsible because you weren't driving, right? You were walking. It didn't matter if you rolled an ankle or stubbed a toe or lost a toenail. Not that those are things I did. Just kidding. But speaking of that, remember the moment, so I get divorced. I'm living in the same building as Maureen. And my ex-husband and I had signed the...
Maureen Benkovich (08:45.844)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (08:58.307)
Yeah.
That's me.
Heather Marie Morse (09:05.876)
divorce papers and the custody agreement and that's where some grief kicked in. All of a sudden I'm in this moment where I'm like I don't have my kids half the time. We reached an amicable totally fair agreement which I wanted, he wanted, it was perfect. But then the reality hit me when the kids that very first time went with him and I'm left to what if I
Maureen Benkovich (09:10.4)
Hmm
Maureen Benkovich (09:27.544)
The loss.
Heather Marie Morse (09:33.244)
Like my whole life has been around being the wife and the mother and the, you know, pharmacist and everything to everybody else, but to myself. And then what am I going to do with myself? And so as soon as his car pulls away, I'm like, well, there's a bar on the corner. Let's just go in. And I went in by myself. I went in by myself and it was early, though. It wasn't late. It was like just about getting started to be happy hour.
Maureen Benkovich (09:36.366)
you
Maureen Benkovich (09:51.896)
Right?
Heather Marie Morse (10:02.719)
But that one drink was like the drink that changed everything. The relief I felt in that one drink to just turn off what I couldn't control definitely changed something, for sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (10:20.224)
It really did. mean, know, brain chemistry speaking, it started a new neural pathway, a new habit with that first drink of this is how you turn off when you don't want to feel this grief and you're now alone and you don't want to feel it. Yeah. And I know the bar, right? It was too, it's too easy to walk down there. There's always people there that were probably doing the same thing and you could feel not alone.
Heather Marie Morse (10:25.936)
Mm-hmm. It did.
Heather Marie Morse (10:37.224)
Yeah, and then you'd...
Heather Marie Morse (10:47.58)
Right, and then here's where the first Sink With You, second one, comes back with you. Because I was that sensitive kid, sensitive stomach, didn't eat gluten back when it wasn't a huge thing. It became mainstream and people, now everybody knows gluten and they probably all know everything that's got gluten and doesn't, but back then, was, I'm admittedly very picky, and I,
Maureen Benkovich (10:58.04)
Yes.
Heather Marie Morse (11:17.374)
I was like, well, what do you want? And I literally had one drink, vodka soda. And I'm looking, and I'm like, you have this one alcohol that is made from potatoes and not from wheat. And yeah, we have another local, a frequent customer who comes in here all the time, and she requested that we get this. And guess who that was? That was Maureen, but we didn't.
Maureen Benkovich (11:27.054)
gluten free.
Maureen Benkovich (11:38.134)
Yeah, because it's healthier, healthier vodka. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (11:44.039)
We didn't connect that dot yet for a while. So yeah, that, so that was a double win. It's like, it's healthy. But you know, it's not really healthy because they used alcohol as an anesthetic in surgery a couple hundred years ago. It's just gluten-free toxins. Yeah,
Maureen Benkovich (11:50.51)
right.
Maureen Benkovich (12:01.294)
Yeah, was just gluten-free ethanol. Dioxin. Yeah, we could fool ourselves and I certainly did. thought, I get a gluten-free, no sugar, straight up martini. That's the healthiest drink you can get. And that's how I fooled myself. But yeah, we had that connection. Okay. And then what happened?
Heather Marie Morse (12:17.268)
Right. Yeah, and then what happened? So it was gradual. It wasn't like a huge shift. I kept up kind of like a double life when the boys were with me, Super Mom, all control, all in check, all the things. And then when they would go with their dad, was like, whoo!
Maureen Benkovich (12:32.439)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (12:43.725)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (12:46.682)
But you know, was slow and it was gradual. It was probably not a problem, you know. Of course, was there a night or two or like I said, a rolled ankle or two? Like my stuff always showed up pretty physically, pretty quickly. And then I lost my best friend of a brain tumor and she was 40. I know. And I was like that summer, I remember being like so worried about like, it's my 40th birthday.
Maureen Benkovich (12:59.799)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (13:06.611)
Ugh, sorry.
Heather Marie Morse (13:16.242)
I need to throw a big party and who can we invite and what, you know, like, and then like all of that went out the window. Like I just was happy to be alive. And then, yeah, but that was some serious grief. Still is. I mean, I don't think you ever get over that, you know? And then, so it was like those, there was like about a period of like three years where I lost my best friend and then I also lost my mom of a brain tumor.
Maureen Benkovich (13:24.673)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (13:43.755)
my gosh, so sorry. So grief upon grief upon grief.
Heather Marie Morse (13:44.818)
Different kinds, grief upon grief upon grief. And then alcohol is just my best friend. But I was so highly functional, no one would have known I had a good job. Never drank at work or like mixed the two. But then like, you know, you just start bending those rules. It's like happy hour starts at 445 and then.
Maureen Benkovich (13:52.184)
Your friend. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (14:01.442)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (14:07.629)
Yes.
Heather Marie Morse (14:11.475)
And then well on Friday we can start at noon. You know where it's like it would depend on the schedule And then till I just I just couldn't I just couldn't do it anymore I mean, I just I just couldn't do it anymore. It was physically I probably could have kept going till something like rockabotomy happened I Luckily for me. I didn't get to that place Yeah
Maureen Benkovich (14:24.332)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (14:33.344)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (14:37.87)
But that's so important. That's exactly what I love to talk about the most here is that you don't have to hit a rock bottom or at least what we've been taught is a rock bottom. mean, you know, it might be your own personal rock bottom of not feeling good about yourself and out of alignment, but this is so important that you didn't wait till you lost your job and, you know, something happened with your kids or whatever. You said, have to change. So what happened then?
Heather Marie Morse (14:42.139)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (14:49.021)
correct.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (15:04.755)
I just got so, I was so physically like everything still looked good. The job, the kids, the friends. I had increased my friend group and had other, like that loneliness was not gone. It was just, you know, it wasn't still real though because there was still that like alcohol part, but it looked like I had a big lively social scene. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (15:11.246)
Mm.
Maureen Benkovich (15:27.18)
Yeah, you.
Maureen Benkovich (15:32.586)
Me too. Me too. And I like how you said alcohol was your friend, right? Which it's really not. But we use it as that comforter friend, Boredom.
Heather Marie Morse (15:34.952)
But I was.
Yeah.
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (15:43.828)
Humber a friend and activity like, what festival? what, I mean we live in a town where like there's like pop-up stuff all the time to walk around. It's crazy. You know, there's no, you never are in need of a reason ever. Like there's just no downtime. It's either a holiday or a game or a, you know, mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (15:52.928)
It's insane. is freaking insane. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (16:00.939)
Nope.
Maureen Benkovich (16:08.736)
It's a tourist town and there's just always some reason. It's always about, you know, the money and drawing people to the bars, but the locals then have the opportunity to drink literally all the time. And then you add the boating culture on top of that. And that's just so, and we can have a whole nother episode on that. you're also a pharmacist and you know, there's part of you that knows this is like so not healthy, right?
Heather Marie Morse (16:16.135)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, boating culture, yes.
Heather Marie Morse (16:31.507)
you
Heather Marie Morse (16:35.763)
Correct, like I started feeling the physical effects and I wasn't planning to talk about this but now that we're talking it, like not that I was hiding it but like.
the culture of keeping up with the hustle culture, the society, I started getting a ton of anxiety, like crazy anxiety, which we know the chemicals from the dinorphin and all the... Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (16:48.664)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (16:57.346)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (17:03.926)
Adrenaline and the cortisol, yes. And your own chemicals, they decrease in neurotransmitter production and receptors because they're trying to, your brain's trying to establish homeostasis because we're these massive hits of dopamine from alcohol all the time and GABA and GAPA and glutamate and go into all that. But yeah, so the anxiety is increasing. The very thing we're drinking around, it's getting worse from the drinking.
Heather Marie Morse (17:19.218)
Yes.
Heather Marie Morse (17:25.458)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (17:31.975)
Correct, so then I was going to doctors and I was like, the stress is getting to me, like now by this point I'm probably like five years into co-parenting, like single parenting basically on my time. Like I've still not since partnered up with anybody by choice, but like, you know, it's not easy doing it on your own. our...
Maureen Benkovich (17:47.704)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (17:57.815)
No.
Heather Marie Morse (17:58.644)
society's not set up for it and all the things I could rant about but like, so I ended up, because I'm a pharmacist, I'm like, oh, I need like, I need a stimulant, I need an upper, I probably have ADD or like stress or whatever and there was a doctor who's like, your anxiety, know, blah, blah. Anyway, it was nothing illegal, I wasn't in trouble with pharmacy, I just wanna make that clear, like there was no helping myself to anything but I did get a doctor to legally prescribe an amphetamine.
Maureen Benkovich (18:00.983)
Hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (18:25.853)
to help me concentrate because I couldn't concentrate because I had so much damn anxiety.
Maureen Benkovich (18:29.944)
Well, let's just hang there for a minute because we talked about this before we started recording because I did the same thing. I didn't want to think it could be the alcohol. So it's got to be everything else. I have anxiety, have depression, know, it's gluten, it's dairy, it's hormones, right? Everything but the alcohol and the medical community will go along with that.
Heather Marie Morse (18:35.367)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (18:44.005)
It's hormones.
Heather Marie Morse (18:52.659)
Totally, 100%. I followed the rules, I did the process, and so I was taking amphetamines to be able to function and do my job and parent and keep up with the kids and keep my house perfect and all the things. And then I got into this loop for a couple of years where I needed the amphetamines to start the day and I needed the alcohol even more to take the day off.
Maureen Benkovich (18:54.126)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (19:11.319)
all the pressure.
Maureen Benkovich (19:22.018)
down.
Heather Marie Morse (19:22.545)
and I just got in this loop and for me personally, I'm not speaking for everybody, the amphetamines, I could drink like a freaking superhero. mean. So of course the physical effects were worse. Yes, like makes no sense. It's like,
Maureen Benkovich (19:33.966)
Yeah, that's why people do cocaine and drink. Yeah.
I can drink more. Well, when we're drinking an addictive drug, we're not really in our rational brain after the first two, you know, and then you add some other drugs in there. I was, you know, I was taking sleeping meds too, because I couldn't sleep because of alcohol, right? So was doing the same thing you were. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (19:52.07)
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (20:00.379)
Yeah, yeah, I had really kind of forgotten about that part of the journey too. How connected it was because it, but then I just found myself totally, so disconnected from myself and my intuition and which had always been like a really trusted guide. Like I could always, you know, I grew up.
Maureen Benkovich (20:07.086)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:13.785)
my gosh, Yes.
Heather Marie Morse (20:25.574)
but with like I said a single mom. So I was super close to both my grandmothers who are really old school who you know those traditions get kind of lost now. But I would like not actually like hear my grandmother's voice but like sometimes I would smell. Yeah, like it would come through and like and I that alcohol turned all that off. The amphetamine every all the non like real stuff turned all of that off.
Maureen Benkovich (20:27.222)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:34.188)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:40.748)
her wisdom.
Maureen Benkovich (20:48.795)
yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (20:55.308)
and I just had to get really quiet. had to like, I just quit the amphetamines first, cold turkey, which I don't recommend. Definitely follow your doctor's orders. Be honest with them. But I couldn't let go of the alcohol. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (21:01.806)
Mmm.
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (21:12.974)
And you at that point, you didn't know why, right? So you were being, were you being hard on yourself? Like, what is wrong with me? I'm a pharmacist. I should get my act together. Why can't I just stop this, right? Not really understanding why.
Heather Marie Morse (21:23.462)
For sure, for sure. But I would do, because I am a pharmacist, I am super health conscious, I am sensitive, so it's not like I wanna be, I'm not like an ultra marathoner either, if you are, there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm not like, I'm not the sober fit chick like Laurie is. I'm like the sober, most of the time in shape chick. I just gauge my energy levels, but my energy levels totally suck.
Maureen Benkovich (21:37.069)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (21:41.558)
I'm not a marathoner either anymore, yeah. Most of the time in shape check, I like that.
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (21:53.233)
Like they were terrible. And I would do Whole 30s. And I was like, I read this book back when I said I had that first little miniature spiritual awakening when I was married and I wasn't like super, things weren't great. And I was in like 2009, I did this. This book came out by Dr. Alejandro Younger. It's called Clean. It's amazing. it's it.
Maureen Benkovich (21:53.966)
Of course.
Maureen Benkovich (21:59.16)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (22:05.911)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (22:17.324)
Yeah, yeah, remember.
Heather Marie Morse (22:20.964)
It's really good because it actually goes into like what alcohol does to your body before like anyone was talking about that. And that book just changed my life. And I did the whole thing. And I credit that cleanse, which I didn't do with like the shakes or supplements. I literally like cooked everything myself back then. But it cleared the energetic, the physical, the all the like it reset my body and just like like literally three weeks. And that
Maureen Benkovich (22:25.343)
Mm-hmm
Maureen Benkovich (22:48.29)
Yeah. And this was, this was back. This was the first time you did it. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (22:51.5)
Right, this was back in 2009 and that I feel like was the catalyst in seeing, letting the intuition come through the first time to be okay with the divorce and be okay with, okay, this is all that stuff I said. So then I kept trying to do that again, repeat that and I couldn't do it. I would get, I would do really good on no caffeine. never, I still didn't eat gluten so that was easy. I'm like, okay, I'll quit caffeine. I'll quit dairy for three weeks, which I didn't eat a ton of dairy either.
Maureen Benkovich (22:55.789)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (23:13.666)
Yeah. Right.
Heather Marie Morse (23:21.626)
Sugar, not a problem. The alcohol was hard. So I would make it a weekend. And then I would make it, I remember like, yeah, summer of 2016, I made it 17 days. And I was like, yeah, I'm almost there. there's a, yeah, well then there was like a music festival and my friends are like, you wanna go? And I'm like, sure. And then I actually made it like,
Maureen Benkovich (23:30.168)
You were white knuckling at that, right? It was like there was no,
Maureen Benkovich (23:39.303)
Time to reward yourself with a drink.
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (23:48.945)
the first two days of the festival, like drinking my water and my NA stuff at the festival, and then willpower will only get you so far. And then that last day, I threw it away. So like it was almost there in 2016. And then it was, now we know. Mm-hmm, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (23:57.876)
Yes, that's right.
Yep.
Maureen Benkovich (24:05.228)
Yeah, but like now we know on the other side about self-compassion, right? But yeah, willpower is like a muscle and you had worn it out at a festival not drinking with your friends, like throwing yourself into the lion's den because you think you should be able to, right?
Heather Marie Morse (24:13.122)
Out.
Heather Marie Morse (24:20.432)
Yeah, and you wanna know what did it? It wasn't the peer pressure, it wasn't the missing out. I was happy and great. It was my physical body. By day three of the music festival, my feet hurt. And I was getting dehydrated. You know what mean? It was the sun, it was the summer. It's always my physical body that I would use the alcohol. It was my trigger. was like, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (24:28.044)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (24:39.948)
Mm, that's your trigger.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (24:45.73)
Some people their trigger is totally different, but for me it was always the physical. It was always like, I don't feel good. Let me give me the anesthetic right now. Pain. Pain. And it wasn't like, serious pain. was just like annoying pain. was, it was like, yeah. So yeah, getting out of the discomfort.
Maureen Benkovich (24:47.426)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
A lot of people do that. A lot of people do that. Drink for pain, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (25:00.556)
Right? Discomfort. Discomfort because we are taught we shouldn't be in discomfort, which is totally different from where you are now as a yoga instructor. But so then you and I, unbeknownst to each other, decided to go through the same course, coaching course. We didn't even talk to each other, but then we met on the other side of that. And I'm like, you did that? And you're like, yeah, you did that? So I just thought that was so interesting because we didn't talk during that time.
Heather Marie Morse (25:10.179)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (25:17.296)
Yeah, we did.
Heather Marie Morse (25:25.074)
Yeah.
No.
Maureen Benkovich (25:30.306)
then we realized we had both completely changed our lives.
Heather Marie Morse (25:33.49)
I know and I wish like I like I wish we had because like if we had had each other to support on the journey like can you imagine how much easier it would have been but I went
Maureen Benkovich (25:36.224)
I know.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We might've been partners in crime. It might've been good that we weren't together at first, you know, in the early few months were challenging.
Heather Marie Morse (25:48.198)
What?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I had to isolate. Like I had to go. I basically like stayed in. I hermited myself. Like a lot of old connections had to die to reset the new pattern. I ended up moving back to the place where I knew you the first time because of like a school thing with the kids. Yeah, I didn't really want to go back there, but going back there was what made me break my walk out my front door habit.
Maureen Benkovich (26:05.164)
Yeah. Yep.
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (26:13.482)
Yeah, it's quieter over there.
Maureen Benkovich (26:23.798)
Yeah, and I want to like hang there for a second because sometimes when I'm working with clients, that's a really hard thing. like, well, I want to stop drinking or take a break, but I don't want to isolate. I still want to go to all the same dinners, all the same bars, all the same parties. And, you I always tell people, okay, well, be curious, give it a shot. But it's so hard when you've made those neural pathways. It's nothing to do with your weak or a moral failing.
Heather Marie Morse (26:24.913)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (26:46.373)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-mm.
Maureen Benkovich (26:50.006)
and you should be able to do that. Those connections are so strong. So I did the same thing you did. I had to pull back from my social group because they were all about drinking and I was like the big party girl in it and I didn't know how to be at that time. So I, like you, I had to pull back completely, which, you know, it's not for everybody, but I think you and I both did the same kind of thing.
Heather Marie Morse (26:57.157)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (27:04.517)
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (27:09.424)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (27:13.007)
Yeah, because you have, like, it's like a muscle. Like, I feel like it's the same as like you would, you know, if you're a beginner in a yoga class, like you don't know how to do the poses or Pilates, like you, you don't know what you're doing. And it's the same way with quitting drinking. It's like, you don't know what you're, you know, you don't know what you're doing. And I did, I got kind of lucky because like I had been sober for about three months and
Maureen Benkovich (27:15.671)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (27:30.403)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (27:39.841)
hadn't like really committed to forever. Like I said, I had done those whole thirties like for like about three years. I would be like try to do one of those cleanses or whole thirties and I would always feel better, but I would always go back to it. Like when I hit my goal and I did the thing, but then like I knew I could do 30 days, which I know is not everyone's situation, but I would get to the 30 days and then I would go back because that's the reward. But then this time I was like, I'm going to go
Maureen Benkovich (27:48.27)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (28:05.656)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (28:09.668)
a hundred days, you know? Let me be see, right? Like if I can, like I know I can do, so I was doing that and then the pandemic hit and the world shut down. So that helped me. Not only did I break the habit, but then everyone had to break the habit. And I remember thinking to myself, well, this is a terrible time to start like drinking at home again. Like, you know what I mean? Like this is terrible. So then gradually like,
Maureen Benkovich (28:11.756)
Let me be curious and see what happens.
Maureen Benkovich (28:24.226)
That helped you.
Heather Marie Morse (28:39.149)
as the world opened back up again, would like train my sober muscle and be like, I'm kind of at a, now I'm at a disadvantage because now all this time has gone by. Well, yes, I have sober time under me now. I didn't trust myself in this town. So what I would do is I would come to lunch by myself and I would sit and get my healthy food, my salad, my...
Maureen Benkovich (28:46.497)
I love that.
Maureen Benkovich (29:01.976)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:06.508)
Yes. You dipped your toe in.
Heather Marie Morse (29:09.169)
I did my toe in and in order, know, my just playing club soda at the same haunts, but not at night, not at happy hour. And I would just gradually do that until I had hit almost every place that felt familiar, that felt like home, that I felt like if I went there with friends, I would be triggered again to to go back and drink again. And it it worked. And then, you know, flash forward.
Maureen Benkovich (29:16.45)
Yep. In the daytime. Yep. So smart.
Maureen Benkovich (29:25.848)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (29:30.754)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:35.052)
Yeah. Love it.
Heather Marie Morse (29:38.467)
Last summer when I did move back again to this town, like not once have I, I just don't think about it anymore because that I have restored that connection to myself. like, listen like for like the, like in yoga, the body is a temple, right? It's your physical vessel, like this meat suit that we wear, you know, like.
Maureen Benkovich (29:45.795)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (29:50.509)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:57.378)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (30:01.198)
You
Heather Marie Morse (30:03.93)
Like I had to honor it and I thought I was for so long by being, I thought I was, but I was, but not all the way. just because, know, mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (30:08.451)
Yeah, me too.
Maureen Benkovich (30:13.194)
yeah. I thought I was by working out and eating healthy during the week and then, know, binging on the weekends. 80-20 rule, right? But yeah, so let's talk about that deeper connection with yourself. So you go through this, you withdraw, as you say, you're starting to develop your sober muscle and at the same time, you're getting back in touch, connected with your authentic self. So what was happening there?
Heather Marie Morse (30:21.209)
Yeah? Yeah, right?
Heather Marie Morse (30:28.081)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (30:40.485)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (30:41.89)
The yoga was increasing, you were taking certifications, right? You were becoming an instructor.
Heather Marie Morse (30:46.403)
Yeah, so, right, so I did like so many yoga. I got a little, well, I'll hit on that at the end, but because we can check out on ourselves in a lot of ways, know. Yeah, and like I went on like a learning bender, which is a healthy one. Don't get me wrong, if you need to, you need to. Yeah, exactly. But it was like I couldn't get enough knowledge.
Maureen Benkovich (30:58.358)
Yes, you can trade one thing for another. Right.
Maureen Benkovich (31:08.428)
Right, if you need to do that kind.
Maureen Benkovich (31:13.134)
Me too.
Heather Marie Morse (31:13.553)
Like now I was like, oh, I need to like learn all the things. So I had actually done a yoga training back when I said I got into yoga back in like 09. I took a 200 hour training, but I didn't like stay certified because it was different then. Like there was no online. It was so hard then. It was so much easier now. So then when the pandemic, you know, I was over there, isolated. I was like, oh, yoga teacher training. This is a great time to do this. Like the world shut down and
Maureen Benkovich (31:20.302)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (31:28.824)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (31:40.611)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (31:42.769)
Yeah, I made some a lot of connections. I started teaching at a studio or two. No, in person. Yeah, in person and virtually like the people that weren't physically near me like I would, it's hard. I don't like teaching like a whole vinyasa class on Zoom because it's a camera and like, mean, if you and I like the setup for a podcast, can you imagine like?
Maureen Benkovich (31:50.092)
Virtually, all virtually? in person. Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (32:04.458)
Mm-hmm. Right. That would be hard.
Heather Marie Morse (32:07.685)
You need an assistant. at that point, it just does not. It's not worth it. But I can do a lot of the Kundalini yoga or yin yoga on Zoom. So I was doing a little bit of both, but mainly in the studio. And then so like not to go way, way back, but like my my great aunt was an astrologer. And back when I was 17 years old, I had my first astrology reading. I had not been a drinker then. I was like a late bloomer with drinking. I didn't really start drinking until college.
Maureen Benkovich (32:36.877)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (32:38.052)
So I was, remember that reading very vividly. She told me I'd be an astrologer. I laughed and like, are you kidding? I'm going to this smart job and like, you know, all these, listening to the adults in the room except her. And so a lot of the things she said when I finally turned off drinking, like, and started listening to my inner voice, like a lot of the things, like I just kept hearing those things that she had said. And I was very close to her. My mom and her were really close. So it wasn't just like one reading and I remember it. That would be crazy.
Maureen Benkovich (32:44.792)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (33:04.087)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (33:08.26)
But yeah, a lot of things she said, like the moon, like I've always been obsessed with the moon. And when my mother died, I remembered like that book, Good Night Moon, it's like a kid's book or like it's been around for a long time. it's the concept that like we all look up at the same moon, that we all have that commonality. It can matter.
Maureen Benkovich (33:24.536)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure.
Heather Marie Morse (33:36.226)
genders, ages, races, ethnicities, political views, like countries, we all look up at the same moon. I did just something really powerful about that to me. And like her face has changed, you sometimes she's new, sometimes she's full, but she's not like the moon is never gone. Like even when you can't see her, she's still there. It's just something's blocking it, like the earth, you know, like in the way to make it like you can't see the moon.
Maureen Benkovich (34:00.462)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (34:03.631)
And it really, metaphor to sobriety, like when I couldn't see myself, like it just was really, really powerful to me. And I still felt connected to my friends and my mom. And so I started like doing their charts. Like these two women I've lost that shared this thing, like that were so, you know, anyway, they both happen to have the same moon. Like they both have a Pisces moon. And...
Maureen Benkovich (34:08.282)
Love that.
Maureen Benkovich (34:27.694)
Mm.
Heather Marie Morse (34:29.936)
When you're born, you can have a moon in 12 places. So that's one out of 12. Like that's kind of a coincidence. It's not the most rare thing like.
Maureen Benkovich (34:38.126)
So this is how you stay connected with these women and connected with yourself is what I'm hearing you say.
Heather Marie Morse (34:40.868)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and then I went to astrology school. So I took two years of astrology school and yeah, I got really into like all of the esoteric systems because there's many different forms of like spirituality, divination, just, what I mean that is like, cause a lot of people have an issue with the word God or source, like whatever word makes sense to you, like source, God, universe, light. I particularly like the word light. Yeah, light.
Maureen Benkovich (34:48.078)
Wow.
Maureen Benkovich (34:58.499)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (35:10.68)
For me, he's God. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (35:14.288)
I like, it's just all it means to me is a connection to something greater than ourselves and it was a way, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (35:21.986)
Well, let me just hang get back in there as far as sober fit life, right? So you're making a really good point. Alcohol, which we often are sold a bill of goods and we think helps us connect with others and be more social and less anxious. It's actually very disconnecting to ourselves, especially, and we're not really connecting with others. So now you're really getting connected with yourself, these women that you love, the moon.
Heather Marie Morse (35:40.538)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (35:51.152)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (35:51.242)
And also I just want to bring in the science here a little bit, because you're such an interesting combination of the medical world, pharmacy world, and also this kind of spiritual aspects world. What about the moon and circadian rhythms? You know, that's so important as far as us trying to heal from drinking, get in touch with our circadian rhythms and sleep schedules. Do you get into all that too?
Heather Marie Morse (35:55.801)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (36:07.811)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (36:15.308)
Yeah, like the, I merged like the practical and the spiritual. like, like the moon, like, like go out on a full moon and you can see the tide.
Maureen Benkovich (36:25.112)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (36:26.916)
there's always a higher or a lower tide on a new or full moon, especially if you live near the water. Our bodies, which is what symbolically the moon represents, are 70 to 80 % water. if the tides, if the moon can pull the tides, it's a gravitational, it's a whole science to that. I don't think anyone denies the moon faces or the science of the tide.
Maureen Benkovich (36:41.389)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (36:48.866)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (36:54.604)
Right.
Heather Marie Morse (36:56.85)
Tracking my own body because remember like the way I drank was the way When my physical body like that was my trigger, right? So when my physical body didn't feel good, so I started tracking the moon and like Noticing like when was I more scattered or stressed or physically didn't feel good and I started noticing patterns Like a G, you know, like a good pattern not the pattern of drinking and like I can't get off this well-worn path
Maureen Benkovich (36:59.846)
interesting.
Maureen Benkovich (37:14.03)
Mmm.
Maureen Benkovich (37:20.522)
Interesting. Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (37:26.79)
I'm like, and then the other thing I noticed was like it changes just like the moon changes No feeling is final. Like if I'm in it and something super stressful super trigger II whether it's work or
Maureen Benkovich (37:33.486)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (37:43.51)
life or the person in the grocery store or traffic or you know whatever it is it's like no feeling is final and like like using the water and the tide metaphor it's kind of like you can just kind of ride that wave like the moon is very watery and lunar and yeah so i just
Maureen Benkovich (38:01.058)
That's so important. That's so important. And you know, one of the coaching kind of tools we use is called surfing the urge or that wave. And it's just like a wave. It will increase the trigger, the wave, and then it will break. It will break. And that's helping people get through that uncomfortableness of the increasing of the wave and not turn to alcohol, you know, and instead turn to other things like what you're doing, yoga.
Heather Marie Morse (38:08.045)
urge exactly.
Heather Marie Morse (38:13.614)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (38:29.773)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (38:29.9)
getting in touch with your body, really understanding your rhythms. So again, instead of pulling away and disconnecting and not feeling, you leaned really much into your body, into your systems to try to understand it.
Heather Marie Morse (38:42.818)
Yes, it was really just for understanding, know, it's like, and working with it and having, you know, a little bit of prediction, like where I fine tuned it now to where like, I know when like,
it's a good day to do mental mind work, whether it's my limiting beliefs, which is the unconscious. The moon is also representative of the unconscious. You can't see the face. So it's very similar in the brain. I wish I had actually got that ready for this. But there's a whole moon link to the brain.
Maureen Benkovich (39:04.238)
Mm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:16.622)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:25.686)
And do you do this work with people? you? Okay. So people, I'm going to have this in the show notes, help people can find Heather. Cause this is so interesting. We could do just an episode on this. But I love what you said. Say it again. How, when you can't see the moon, it's because it's being blocked. And that metaphor is how alcohol was blocking you.
Heather Marie Morse (39:28.312)
I do, yeah, I do. I help them track their patterns.
Yeah. For sure.
Heather Marie Morse (39:45.09)
is blocking. Yeah, it's blocking. So when the moon is new, means the earth, I mean the moon and the sun are together. It's called a conjunction. But the earth is blocking it. The earth's shadow is blocking it. So when alcohol to me was my shadow, it was my shadow whether it was, you know,
Maureen Benkovich (40:00.952)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (40:07.235)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (40:12.324)
Just, was blocking, I was in my own way. It was like the way you think you're helping and relaxing and medicating, but it's over time and stacked up and up and up. It's like having a block the whole time. It's less light. It's like the light can't get through everything.
Maureen Benkovich (40:14.338)
Yeah, me too.
Maureen Benkovich (40:27.682)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (40:31.276)
Yeah, it numbs everything. I say this almost on every podcast. We set out to numb something like grief, like you were saying, but it cannot selectively numb. Alcohol numbs everything. So your joy, your creativity, your love, your ability to connect with yourself and others. And when we stop drinking, you start to come out of that. You start to feel those things again.
Heather Marie Morse (40:44.781)
your joy,
Heather Marie Morse (40:56.279)
Yeah, and it happens like, you know, it happens gradual, but then like, it's all at once too at the same time. It's like, all it takes is like,
Like it just opened up for me to just notice the signs and synchronicities. like turning off the alcohol, unblocking myself and like I'm not perfect. Like yes, I have a long sober streak now, but like I still get moody as hell. Like, know what I'm moony moody, you know, it's like.
Maureen Benkovich (41:20.555)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (41:25.154)
Sure, of course you did. That's what I said in the beginning of our introduction. Like we were both trying to look perfect, like we had it all together and the drinking was so wrapped up in that. Now it's like, no, we still have pains and frustrations and I have times of sadness still and all that, but I'm drinking to disconnect. I'm allowing myself to feel it and so are you. And we have tools now that help us to.
Heather Marie Morse (41:32.95)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (41:50.04)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (41:53.164)
regulate our central nervous systems and process this and friends who understand now too. So what would you, I'm just curious, what would you tell your older self who used to cope with alcohol with all that you've learned? You know, someone who might be listening now who's struggling with the same thing. They're grieving, sad, self-medicating. What would you say?
Heather Marie Morse (41:58.22)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (42:13.378)
Yeah, so there's a part of you that knows, like that already knows and listen to that, that inner voice, the one that's really, really quiet, that's hard to hear, that's so easy to like, like turn off because it doesn't...
Maureen Benkovich (42:17.667)
Mm.
Heather Marie Morse (42:34.155)
like the intuition, the more you listen to it, the louder it gets. But in the beginning, it's just a whisper. It's just so quiet. It's like, like, do I feel good around this person or do I feel good in this situation or does this situation drain me? And it's like, you know, the the body doesn't lie. Like if if your physical vessel like tenses up around, you know,
Maureen Benkovich (42:41.26)
I agree.
Maureen Benkovich (42:48.012)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (43:04.281)
people place the things, like that's a sign. That's something to listen to. It's like, they say the body keeps the score, but it really is true. A lot of the yoga teachers will say like, our issues live in our tissues.
Maureen Benkovich (43:11.875)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (43:16.844)
It is true.
Maureen Benkovich (43:22.638)
Yeah, well, that book, The Body Keeps the Score talks about the very thing and I 100 % believe that. Heather, I could talk to you, we probably have to have you on for another episode to specifically talk about what you do and your yoga. But I'm so glad we both went through this journey together and we're both on the other side of alcohol living very different lives and that we've reconnected again.
Heather Marie Morse (43:27.021)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Heather Marie Morse (43:43.009)
Very different lives. I know. I'm so glad too. It's yeah, it's just the people that come in, you know, in and out of your lives. It's just like, you know what I mean? It's we're just have the similar story. And I just we were both trying to be healthy. We were both trying to we knew the part of you and me that knew even like which vaudevillian to pick, you know, back in the day that that was like intuition like
Yeah, this stuff is toxic, but that one might be worse than this one. But like we, we, I wouldn't go back and change anything, which I know to a lot of people might sound really crazy, but I needed like, I needed all of those, like all that ramp, like to be like, you know, where some people it is more of a switch, but I needed more. I needed like, this and then this, and then like follow the breadcrumb, like to warmer and warmer. Like maybe I started with.
Maureen Benkovich (44:24.845)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (44:41.635)
the healthier vodka, but like then you're like, yeah, well, this still doesn't feel so healthy. Like, you know, and.
Maureen Benkovich (44:45.39)
Most people are actually more like us. It's like a seven to 10 year kind of journey from the time you start thinking about it. You try these fast and you try to not drink and you try to have healthier choices, you know, but then you keep that voice gets louder, like you say, and then finally we listen to it. So I love what you said. Anybody out there listening, you know, listen to your, that quiet voice. Don't turn it off. Don't numb it out and just be curious and, you know, give it a try taking a break. So you can look for Heather.
Heather Marie Morse (44:51.577)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (45:03.191)
Yeah.
Heather Marie Morse (45:13.879)
Yeah, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (45:15.872)
In the show notes, but Heather, is your website or how can people find you if they want to know more about you?
Heather Marie Morse (45:22.799)
Sure, so my website's just my whole name HeatherMarieMorris.com and I also have a sub stack called The Light Today. So it's, you know, follows the movements of the, mainly the moon, but the planets and it's free. You know, there's tears, but I'm big on, you know, sharing all this knowledge that I've been lucky to learn and like reconnect with. Because a lot of this stuff is just ancient.
Maureen Benkovich (45:31.809)
Ooh.
Maureen Benkovich (45:46.896)
great.
Maureen Benkovich (45:52.002)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Marie Morse (45:52.407)
stuff that just got buried because of the noise of the world and the busyness and the productivity and the picket fences. All those things. Yeah, yeah. So love to connect with anybody, share more. can obviously nerd out on this stuff all day long.
Maureen Benkovich (45:59.042)
Yeah, success, go, go, go, right. Right. I'm going to look at your sub stack, definitely.
Maureen Benkovich (46:12.142)
Well, she'll have to come back for another episode and we'll nerd out on it in depth.
Heather Marie Morse (46:16.599)
Yeah, we can do a case study on your, we'll look up your moon, Maureen, and we'll coach on the spot and we'll see like, we'll track yours and you'll see it in action. Thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (46:20.874)
Okay, that sounds cool. Ooh.
Maureen Benkovich (46:27.884)
All right, that sounds good. Thank you so much, Heather, for coming on Sober Fit Life.
Heather Marie Morse (46:33.39)
Bye.
