Maureen Benkovich (00:01.089)
Welcome to another episode of Sober Fit Life. You know, on Sober Fit Life, I often share and talk about how challenging it can feel when we're first thinking of reevaluating our relationship with alcohol. It can feel overwhelming, but I also share on the other side of alcohol, all the beauty and the joy and the passion and rediscovering life in a whole new way. And that's why I'm really excited to bring on Julianne today, Julianne Serpa, who I met when she was
substitute teaching a yoga class and I just loved her energy and some of the things she said about teaching class, I thought this woman doesn't drink anymore. I'm going go up and talk to her after class. I could tell and we just immediately clicked. And so I'm really excited to have her on today to share her story of transformation, how that came about and all that has happened for her on the other side of alcohol and she has a lot of amazing plans. So we're just going to get right into it.
Julianne Serpa (00:39.788)
Ha ha!
Maureen Benkovich (00:58.123)
I just want to welcome you, Julianne. Thank you so much for coming on to Sober Fitlife podcast. And why don't you just tell us all a little bit about yourself, especially you talked about, I think it was in 2020, it was a year of profound events that catalyzed the catalyst for the change that you have experienced in your life.
Julianne Serpa (01:19.382)
Yeah, certainly. It's a big year for many. Yeah. So thank you so much for having me, Maureen. I'm really excited to be here. It's my honor to have had you in the room that day and being one of our yoga students. So yeah, 2020, whew, marked a profound shift in my life. It was a really big shakeup for me in every way possible.
and it's something that called me deeper into my yoga practice.
And I was introduced to yoga as a teenager, my freshman year of high school. had my very first yoga class. And I remember that moment in Shavasana just being like afterwards being like, whoa, what was that? Whatever that was, I want more. And I was hooked. And for many years, yoga was a place that I found stress relief, that I built a lot of strength and flexibility. And then during 2020, when the world was upside down, I suddenly had more time on my hands more.
time of solitude and I kind of went deeper into my practice. I was really looking for a way to feel better because frankly everything really sucked and felt out of control and my normal coping mechanisms like weren't quite doing it for me. So I kind of turned to yoga and my teachers looking for answers and looking for comfort and stability in a very rocky time in my life.
Maureen Benkovich (02:21.463)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (02:46.731)
What were your normal coping mechanisms at that time?
Julianne Serpa (02:52.766)
normal COVID mechanisms while throwing myself into work. So work gave my life lots of purpose and meaning. It got me out of the house every day. I was fortunate I was traveling all around the country on a pretty regular basis with my job. sure. Should I re-answer the question?
Maureen Benkovich (03:07.373)
I'm going to ask you to speak up louder. I'm going to cut that part out, but yeah, I'll need you to. Yeah, let's talk about what were your coping mechanisms at that time?
Julianne Serpa (03:16.94)
My normal COVID mechanisms. Yeah, so I was always sort of like a health buff. So I had a regular workout routine, yoga, healthy eating, time with family and friends. I considered myself a pretty well-rounded person. And often physical activity would be an outlet. And then in the evenings, my regular wine or cocktail, whatever, was part of my routine of coming
down in the evenings and spending time with family and friends. Over drinks.
Maureen Benkovich (03:50.636)
Yeah, that's what really drew me to because we talk about that a lot on this podcast. People who are care about their health, they're taking care of themselves, they're eating right, they're doing all the things. And yet there's this other activity that's happening at night, usually at night, that contradicts all the good stuff we're doing for our bodies and our brains in the day. So were you feeling out of alignment with, with yourself, between these two daytime and nighttime behaviors?
Julianne Serpa (04:10.378)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (04:19.03)
No, I wasn't feeling out of alignment. It actually just felt very normal. Like I had been drinking for so many years that it was just kind of like part of my routine. And it was something in the evening that made me feel good. You know, it was a way of like letting off steam.
Maureen Benkovich (04:20.737)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (04:32.781)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (04:36.0)
And then over the course of 2020, with more time at home, more downtime, I had more time for drinking. I was drinking more than I ever had and becoming like a daily drinker. Like I didn't have my usual things occupying my time in the evening or traveling for work or whatever that would like eat up my time and my energy.
And I started to look forward to it more each day where it was like I was working from home and it was a way of signaling that the workday was over was when I would pour my first drink. then there came a point where it didn't, it wasn't making me feel better. I wasn't getting the stress relief in the evenings. I was also consuming a lot of news and I was becoming very involved in advocacy, involved with my grandmother's nursing home.
where I was trying to gain access and have like rights for visitation, which were unfortunately taken away from many family members for several months during COVID. And that was.
Maureen Benkovich (05:40.855)
Yes, I went through that with my mother, so I know.
Julianne Serpa (05:43.69)
Yeah, it was extremely distressing and I think unethical. And to be someone that was speaking out about those things, I also faced a lot of conflict and was seeking ways to numb feeling like, am I a villain? am I trying to bring COVID into this place? Or is some of the information we're getting wrong or misguided? So I was grappling with like some really big like ethical and moral issues. And yeah,
And alcohol was a way to kind of numb and relax before bedtime to try to get through the day.
Maureen Benkovich (06:18.733)
So when did you go from this is my routine, this is how I relax to, I'm drinking too much and I don't like how it's making me feel. what, tell me about that process.
Julianne Serpa (06:29.422)
it never really came, actually. It almost came in hindsight, like after I stopped that I realized the effect that it was having and my turning point came. I think it was September, 2020, where I was invited by a yoga teacher at evolutions, Pam Blum. She was hosting these, these five day immersions that she was calling the fab fast.
Maureen Benkovich (06:36.203)
Mm-hmm. That happens a lot.
Julianne Serpa (06:56.142)
and it stood for fasting, asana, and breath. And I was really turned off by the thought of fasting because I thought that any type of food restriction was negative and I didn't want to fuel any control things around food or fixation on my weight. So I was turned off by that. But in talking with her more, I came to realize fasting didn't need to be about food. It could be about anything, like anything you wanted to break from.
So the very first time I did the five day program with her, decided I was going to not drink alcohol for five days and like not eat dessert. So they were like my two evening crutches, which were like comfort food and alcohol.
Maureen Benkovich (07:40.909)
Yeah, interesting too because they're both sugar, right? So, and they both run the same reward, dopamine reward pathway in the brain. So you cut out two things at once for fasting. That's interesting.
Julianne Serpa (07:52.608)
Yeah, and then the program also meets for 90 minutes every morning where you do yoga and breath work and meditation and then there's a little like community time and just talking about you know lifestyle and self-care and such.
So that started to take me deeper and make me curious about my habits with alcohol and the effect that alcohol was having on me. And I have to say, was pretty uncomfortable. I remember feeling like pretty irritable in the evenings and then having this like restlessness and this.
searching in the evening. think that might have also been or could have been on my second round where I cut out like TV, like news and like junk TV and just like screen time in the evenings. So yeah, that was kind of like gateway.
Maureen Benkovich (08:51.297)
I love that I only interrupt you there because I love that you use the word curious that made you curious to go deeper and you were, it was uncomfortable. This is what I share with clients a lot. Yes, this is going to be uncomfortable because we've given alcohol a lot of jobs, how to relax in the evening, how to transition. This is how you down-regulate your central nervous system unknowingly. So when you remove that, I love that you said it made you curious instead of feeling
Julianne Serpa (09:11.458)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (09:18.901)
I don't know, maybe you did feel FOMO or deprivation, but moving into curiosity helps you learn and grow. Is that what you experienced?
Julianne Serpa (09:26.188)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think doing it within that five day span or, you know, anytime, like when we're in a yoga class, we're like, you can do anything for three more breaths because you know where the end point is. So in this five day program, I knew I could do anything for five days, even if it was uncomfortable, even if I felt really cranky in the evening, you know, I could get through it. And we also, had some time to meet with one another in the evening. So that kind of helped, or I would take
Maureen Benkovich (09:38.23)
Hehehe
Julianne Serpa (09:59.2)
yoga class. You know had to find ways to like fill my time.
Maureen Benkovich (10:02.496)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (10:05.406)
And yeah, and then so with each round that I would repeat the program, it was a little bit different every time. And then eventually I did work my way into fasting, not like a straight water fast, but I call it like faux fasting. So it was a type of fasting that worked for me where I was still nourishing my body, but being able to experience like states of ketosis, feeling what that was like for my brain to run on ketones and just starting to feel like my
Maureen Benkovich (10:27.949)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (10:35.12)
body is a laboratory. And yeah, the most empowering thing I can do is feel and experience things for myself, because it's not up to the person in the white coat to tell me the best way to eat or when my bedtime should be. And this is all very yogic in nature. So in yoga, there's a term called svarayaya, and that is self study.
Maureen Benkovich (10:37.357)
The experimental mindset. I love that.
Maureen Benkovich (10:44.907)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (11:00.918)
and it's knowing yourself, knowing what works for you. It's like the original personalized medicine is really getting in tune with your own body system and then being able to discern what you do want to keep putting in your body and what you want to stop putting in your body.
Maureen Benkovich (11:17.473)
Yeah, and would you say that it requires a willingness to be curious, trial and error, and also that experimental mindset, like, let me try this for five days and notice how I feel.
Julianne Serpa (11:21.934)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (11:28.482)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly. And the noticing is key. So cultivating that self-awareness, keeping a journal or whatever ways help you see this is the intervention and this is the effect that it had. Because really these yogis and like a really long time ago, they had it easier in some ways doing this in caves because they weren't living in suburbia and having all these other factors at play, right? But they were like the original biohackers, the original, the original
Maureen Benkovich (11:59.612)
I love that.
Julianne Serpa (12:01.232)
They were very in tune and connected with nature and over time, especially in a modern lifestyle, we're really divorced from like who and what we are and we lose our ability to know what's best and what control you have to put things into your mouth or not.
Maureen Benkovich (12:12.737)
Yeah. yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (12:23.213)
Well, let's bring it back to you and your experience. So you were taking these breaks, you were experiencing the fasting from alcohol, television, sugar, you were noticing, journaling, moving your body, community. mean, so many of the things I do with my clients and recommend as we're going through our break from alcohol, because you're stimulating your central nervous system in another way, other than using alcohol. But when did you personally have the aha about what happens when you remove alcohol?
Julianne Serpa (12:26.094)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (12:32.014)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (12:45.326)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (12:54.412)
Yeah, so I think it was just shy of a year after doing the first FabFast with Pam that I had made up my mind where I didn't want alcohol in my life anymore. I realized how bad it was for me. There were some things that I liked about not having alcohol in my life. But then the thing that was really hard is that I was lonely.
Maureen Benkovich (13:19.575)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (13:20.16)
And then like there was like this sadness and loneliness because I felt like I couldn't fit in with the people and the things I used to do because I realized they weren't that fun without alcohol. And I really missed having alcohol to like make things more fun. It was was really eye opening. And then I started to wonder like, am I an alcoholic? And I went through this period of wondering if I was an alcoholic and actually a
Maureen Benkovich (13:44.173)
Mm.
Julianne Serpa (13:50.036)
turning point came. I was afraid of going to an AA meeting because I was embarrassed. I didn't even know if I was because I had no problem not drinking. But I was sad and it didn't feel good. And all these things that I heard about, like people feeling really good and clear and losing weight once they stopped drinking, those things weren't happening to me. Like in a lot of ways I felt worse. So there is a type of 12 step meeting called Y12S.
Maureen Benkovich (14:11.629)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (14:20.02)
are, which is yoga for 12-step recovery. So I made my way to one of those classes, which was also hosted at Evolution, so it was like it fell in my lap, you know, this thing to try. And it was really great being there because yoga is my home, like I feel at home on my mat. And then these people in the room, I was just so moved by like the honesty and the heart in the room.
Maureen Benkovich (14:22.678)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (14:48.674)
But then I also realized that I definitely wasn't an alcoholic. And I remember talking to a lady after.
Maureen Benkovich (14:55.757)
Can I stop you? What did that mean for you? Because I think it's so important because we've been brought up and conditioned to label ourselves as an alcoholic or a normal drinker, right? And so you are now experiencing, well, wait a minute, there's a gray area here. I mean, I'm not an alcoholic, quote unquote, what we've learned you must be if you're going to change your relationship with alcohol. But now you're learning, well, I'm a person who it's no longer serving me. So, you know, how did you reconcile that? Because I think this is such an important
Julianne Serpa (15:01.634)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (15:10.999)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (15:18.414)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (15:25.729)
because that label holds so many people back because of the fear, like you just mentioned, if I go there, that means I have a problem. When really you're recognizing, I don't like what it does to me and how I feel. So how did you get to the place where you didn't need to label yourself, but you still felt like, I don't want to drink anymore.
Julianne Serpa (15:29.666)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (15:33.868)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (15:45.75)
Yeah, I didn't realize like you're saying this gray area or like this spectrum that it exists on so like did I use it almost like Medicinally to like feel more comfortable in social settings or whatever. Yeah, but I didn't have a problem not drinking so when I heard stories of other people, know, like multiple stints in rehab or like really reckless things that had happened while they were under the influence I didn't feel like like I could relate to them. but then there was one author
that came to me, the Sober Curious book with Ruby Warrington. And then I realized there are people, you can just not want to drink anymore or just be curious about what life is like when you're not drinking. So that...
Maureen Benkovich (16:20.097)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Maureen Benkovich (16:27.424)
Yeah
Maureen Benkovich (16:32.715)
And how did that feel when you recognized that?
Julianne Serpa (16:35.202)
That was helpful because then I realized there were other people like me. just, I needed to find them. Like I needed to find the others and kind of hone, like hone my radar. But that also comes from like speaking up about where I'm at in my experiences. And then also putting myself in places that aren't just saturated with alcohol.
Maureen Benkovich (16:41.793)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (16:52.205)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (16:58.933)
Right. Because we're just, we're, you know, surrounded by it, especially we happen to live in the same town where we are. It's predominant here. I don't know what 88 bar is in our town or something like that. And it's, we're just surrounded by it. And so it makes sense that at first you feel a little bit lonely because you're removing yourself from this whole culture and sort of looking at it from the outside in. But what I love is you kept going and you found
Julianne Serpa (17:19.342)
Mm.
Julianne Serpa (17:26.382)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (17:27.159)
people, your people on the mat in a class and you went, moved through the uncomfortableness, I guess is what the point I want to make. Just like you teach us in yoga, when we're in a pose and you ask us to continue to hang out there and to breathe, it will subside, we will adapt. All those lessons in yoga, don't you think they apply here?
Julianne Serpa (17:30.54)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (17:36.162)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (17:43.298)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (17:48.366)
Oh, 100%. 100%. And when 20 in 2020, when I went deeper into yoga, I was looking for relief from the suffering and like this existential crisis that was bubbling up in me. And what I realize now is that yoga is not about removing the suffering. In fact, I was very naive at the time. I didn't realize that diving deeper into breath work and into meditation, it's not necessary.
Maureen Benkovich (18:11.063)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (18:18.52)
about feeling good and it can bring up lots of things that are very uncomfortable.
And actually the very first chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, which is like a key text and it's not religious. I mean, it can't be religious, but it can be like tools for life or like a map for life. And in the very first chapter, they talk about this and they call it the yoga of despair and how yoga can teach us how to suffer because you realize that that suffering is inevitable. Like it's just, it's part of life. So how can we learn?
Maureen Benkovich (18:37.517)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (18:55.412)
to suffer well. And me a couple years ago, I would just be like, no, no, no, like, I don't want to suffer. Can we just make this go away? You're right. It is a useful tool to, it kind of softens and dampens things so you can, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (19:03.233)
Same with me, which is why I drank.
Maureen Benkovich (19:13.377)
Yes, numbs.
problem is once the alcohol wears off, all those issues are still there. Right? So that is so interesting. You found your group, I'm going to say your tribe on the mat. Now that was going on and also you had a health crisis. I'm not sure the timing, but can you share a bit of that too, how that all plays into your journey?
Julianne Serpa (19:21.119)
Exactly.
Julianne Serpa (19:37.848)
Yeah, I have, especially in the last few years, I've been, should I, is it picking it up a lot? Should I put her away? Yeah, okay, let me pause for a moment and I'll hold that thought.
Maureen Benkovich (19:42.475)
I hear some dogs barking somewhere.
Maureen Benkovich (19:49.825)
Yes.
Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (20:02.145)
Becca, I tell you this happens every time.
So I put a marker in so you could see it, so you could cut this part out.
Julianne Serpa (21:34.862)
afraid that would happen.
Maureen Benkovich (21:40.268)
Is he in there in your room with you? She. Okay. Yeah. I love dogs. I usually, if mine doesn't, if mine's not quite, so I'm recording this whole time. I have to have my editor cut it out. So, so I want to go back to, because I want you to weave in your health story. Yeah. And so I'm not sure what, cause I want to talk about what catalyzed your shift in your relationship with alcohol. So it was 2020, COVID, all of that, your awareness, but
Julianne Serpa (21:42.572)
Yeah, she's probably better off here.
Julianne Serpa (21:47.726)
You
Julianne Serpa (21:52.248)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (21:57.396)
you're talking about the health crisis, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (22:09.291)
Did your health journey play into this in your relationship with alcohol?
Julianne Serpa (22:13.502)
no, I was like, I was pretty ignorant about it. Actually.
Maureen Benkovich (22:18.445)
So when did that happen?
Julianne Serpa (22:22.41)
that's just been within the last couple of years. Yeah, it was after it was after I'd already stopped drinking that I realized how important it was for me to like really not drink anymore. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (22:26.155)
Okay, I'm gonna.
Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (22:35.989)
Okay, then I'll bring it up that way because I want to like make that connection because it's so important for people to understand. So let's go back to then.
Julianne Serpa (22:38.114)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (22:42.286)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (22:46.829)
Okay, I'm gonna ask you, you said that yoga helped you cultivate your self-awareness and how did that around alcohol? So how did yoga help you cultivate your self-awareness? Is that a good question for you?
Julianne Serpa (23:00.174)
Or the question we left off was how my health issues played into.
Maureen Benkovich (23:07.021)
But I want to, since it didn't play into your, right now I'm trying to get to like, when you came, you you stopped drinking, making these changes and you were just saying you found kind of a loan. Now you found some people and then we can, I guess the way I want to bring your health stuff into is, okay, so now you stopped drinking and you had a health crisis and you realize how important, is that what you're saying? Then you realize, wow, did you realize like it's a good thing I'm not drinking or?
Julianne Serpa (23:37.986)
Yeah, made it like, yeah, I'll be able to say how the last couple of years played it. Cause I've had half a dozen surgeries. So as my body has gone through trauma, I realized how important like fuel is and nourishment for my body to heal from the trauma of surgeries. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (23:45.909)
Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (23:55.99)
Okay, so I'm to pick it up with that same question. Now I understand where we're going. wasn't sure if that was part of your journey in stopping.
Julianne Serpa (24:02.784)
Yeah, and I think it's important to my Y12SR participation was very brief because, yeah, I didn't identify so much with the group in there. Yeah, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (24:10.369)
That's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Just that you like found some people you didn't feel alone. That's the whole point. Like I'm always thinking from a perspective of people that are listening often feel alone. It gets uncomfortable. They quit. They go back to drinking. So you're like pointing out all this stuff, how you persist it, which I think is such a a good point. Um, but I'm to pick it up with your health question now that I understand more of the timing. Where's that doggy?
Julianne Serpa (24:23.607)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (24:36.942)
She is nervous with all these people. It's okay, Koki.
Maureen Benkovich (24:41.737)
Okay, here we go. You ready? Okay. So also you shared with me that you went through a major health crisis. And from what I understand, this was actually after you had stopped drinking. But how did that health crisis give you even more of a perspective on living without alcohol in your life?
Julianne Serpa (24:43.296)
Okay.
Julianne Serpa (25:02.956)
Yeah, so I learned in my 20s that I carry the BRCA2 gene mutation, which greatly increased my risk of having breast and ovarian cancers. So with the guidance of my doctors, I decided to have these risk-reducing surgeries, which included a mastectomy and a salpingoophorectomy to remove my ovaries. just in the last couple of years now since I had, so I basically stopped drinking in like 2020,
2021 timeframe. I've underwent, you know, half a dozen different surgeries related to that and also some kidney stuff. But along the way, like the, the trauma that my body has gone through, like especially surgical menopause, which is diving into the deep end of a major life change for a woman has really made me realize how important it is to fuel and nourish my body so that not only it can heal from the
Maureen Benkovich (25:49.549)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (26:02.936)
of the surgical procedures, but also just as I'm aging over my lifespan, I want to be healthy and strong and fit.
Maureen Benkovich (26:11.565)
Yeah. So you had a new perspective without alcohol, how important it is to take care of your body even more than you thought you were doing back in the day when you were working out and still drinking. Yeah. I had that experience too, as I age, especially, I'm so glad that I don't drink. And I think about my long-term healthcare, which it sounds like all those surgeries had to be very traumatic emotionally and physically. So do you feel glad that you, I know, I think back on like, thank God I'm not drinking because I would have handled that completely differently.
Julianne Serpa (26:20.872)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (26:34.103)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (26:39.47)
Yeah, and I really get it now. Like I knew that like alcohol isn't a nutritional supplement, obviously, but I always felt like, well, I'm working out and I'm eating well. So I felt like my lifestyle would like cancel out the alcohol, but there's no canceling out ingesting all those toxins.
Maureen Benkovich (26:41.249)
like.
Maureen Benkovich (26:52.119)
Mm Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (27:02.125)
Yeah, it's a carcinogen. especially. you, yeah, you really had your eyes opened. did too. It was so amazing. Cause I thought the same thing. I'll just sweat it out during the week. You know, have my green juices. I'll be okay. So I'm hung over a little bit. had no idea the long-term ramifications physically and mentally. Yeah. You bring up another important point that we talked about before we started recording is both of us are childless, not by choice or circumstance. And you as a young woman taking
Julianne Serpa (27:10.986)
Exactly.
Julianne Serpa (27:19.116)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (27:31.509)
these very serious surgeries really changed your life. Can you talk about that a bit? know the grief and the sorrow, but I would like you to share from your perspective.
Julianne Serpa (27:35.714)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (27:43.308)
Yeah, you know the decision to have children is so highly personal and weighed very heavily I think especially in like the climate that we live in now.
So I was back and forth as a young person and then ultimately felt like, no, I don't feel that call to have children. But I didn't really grieve it until I experienced the finality of physically being unable to have children, even if I wanted to. And although I was offered the option to freeze my eggs prior to the surgery, I was like, well, I don't need that because I'm not planning on them.
after the fact you're hit with like a grief process that I, it surprised me because I felt very solid in my decision to not have children, but the grief was delayed around that choice, yeah. But that was also.
Ruby Warrington had another book, Women Without Children, and then also a podcast that helped me feel, again, like not alone in my decision. And yeah, and I appreciate, you know, being able to cross paths with other women that know what that's like.
Maureen Benkovich (29:02.967)
Yeah, again, it's so important to find other women or people who are experiencing what you're experiencing so you know you're not alone. Yeah. So you kind of walk that line between childless, not by choice or circumstance, but also child free, because there was a part of you that, you know, wasn't sure you want or didn't want to have children. So yeah, that it's kind of both sides of it. And she addresses that, I think, in the book as well. It's a very good book for people to read. But so now you've got this new perspective.
Julianne Serpa (29:08.258)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:31.745)
You know, you've gone through so much physically, mentally, you're really getting into yoga. Can you talk about, you know, what happened moving forward, how all of that changing your relationship with alcohol, deciding to have those surgeries, being a young woman without having children, how all that has now played into who you are now and your yoga practice and sapper spirit. I got to ask you about sapper spirit.
Julianne Serpa (29:54.676)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, you know, it was, I was an entirely different person a few years ago. And actually I was very much an atheist too, for most of my adult life. And it's just been within these last several years that my eyes have really been opened to the spiritual journey. And there's still this part of me that's like, are you becoming one of those spiritual people? And I didn't go looking for it, you know, and even
Maureen Benkovich (30:26.765)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (30:27.728)
And after my first Y12 SR meeting, I talked to a lady there. said, I don't know if I belong here. I think I started at step 12. And step 12 is about spiritual awakening. And then I told her a little about my story. She's like, yeah, I don't think you belong here either.
Maureen Benkovich (30:45.769)
Okay.
Julianne Serpa (30:49.016)
So, but that's what, you know, this yoga of despair, like in chapter one of the Gita, it opens the door to this spiritual journey and a process of getting to know like who and what you are and what you wanted to devote your life to.
Maureen Benkovich (31:07.127)
So you went into deep study and then how did you come up with Sapper Spirit?
Julianne Serpa (31:12.108)
So Sapper, Sapper has many meanings. It was the name of my dog. had a little dachshund for.
Almost 17 years. And I kept telling him, so during COVID, he was getting up an age and I said, don't die. You have to wait till this is over to die. You got to get me through this. So in part, my business is named after my beloved dog. And Sapper is also the name of a job in the army and in militaries around the world. And when I had first got this little puppy, my brother was going to Sapper school. So I was inspired.
Maureen Benkovich (31:28.535)
No.
Julianne Serpa (31:49.008)
inspired by his military service. So it's a type of combat engineer and their known their slogan is like sappers lead the way. And so what a sapper does is they go up in front of the infantry to clear the way they build bridges. They make sure the path is safe. And in medieval times, sappers would tunnel like to breach castle walls like instead of going over
Maureen Benkovich (31:49.719)
What is Sapper though? don't understand.
Maureen Benkovich (31:55.531)
Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (32:05.165)
Mm.
Julianne Serpa (32:18.832)
were going to get shot by arrows or whatever, they would tunnel under.
the walls to get in, which is also lends itself to what dachshunds used to do is tunneling and badger hunting through the tunnels. And I think this idea of leading the way and breaching a wall through an unexpected path also lends itself to this spiritual journey and what yoga can be about. If you wish to open yourself to all that yoga is, which is what I've done on this tantric
Maureen Benkovich (32:53.773)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (32:54.54)
Hatha yoga path. It's sort of like tunneling your way into the deepest most sacred part of yourself and your heart, which is what the yogis call Hridaya. And it's not just our physical heart, but this even deeper place where you're connected with the true essence of your being.
Maureen Benkovich (33:15.329)
And now that's really helped you to want to move forward in Sapper Spirit or the Sapper Spirit Foundation you're hoping to have for other women who are struggling with early menopause, finding themselves, I guess, in this tunneling situation through a difficult situation. So you're taking your pain, your struggles, what you've learned and your turnaround in helping other women, which I love.
Julianne Serpa (33:22.306)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (33:31.309)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (33:38.316)
Yeah.
I feel especially passionate about teaching women and not just teaching women, but creating spaces for women to gather in groups, to explore practices like yoga and also things like dream work, poetry, making music and chanting. I've started offering and leading Kirtan this year, which is like a type of sacred music. And yeah, I think it's, it's, it's the original biohacking.
Maureen Benkovich (33:56.717)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (34:09.207)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (34:09.228)
So it's coming into the heart is what I think it's all about.
Maureen Benkovich (34:12.553)
Again, learning these behaviors that support your central nervous system just to bring it to the science because yoga and science are very much in alignment with each other. All these other things that you can do to help increase your feel-good neurotransmitters, just put it in those terms, to take care of yourself, to nourish yourself. So what would you wish more women understood about how their habits, stress, or alcohol use affect their long-term health and vitality?
Julianne Serpa (34:19.7)
Absolutely.
Julianne Serpa (34:27.822)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (34:41.88)
What do I wish more women knew?
Maureen Benkovich (34:43.917)
That you're also trying to share and you're on here sharing.
Julianne Serpa (34:48.302)
I'm going to say something that could be considered very taboo. Is that OK? Maybe don't trust your doctor.
Maureen Benkovich (34:51.477)
Okay. Sure. We love that here.
Maureen Benkovich (34:58.638)
that's not taboo here. mean, I think that yes, do your homework.
Julianne Serpa (35:02.446)
Do your homework, do your study, do your self study on yourself. Be very careful about outsourcing anything about your physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual health to anyone in a white coat. And it's not even about white coats. They could be in an orange robe. It could be anyone that's outside of you. Be very careful.
And I would encourage everybody to really spend time with themselves, spend time in community and explore and have your laboratory, have your interventions and then observe what they do and then decide. And be relentless in your pursuit for wellness. Absolutely.
Maureen Benkovich (35:48.622)
Which it sounds like you have been. I mean, you're living this. So you're not just offering up these words. You have done it. You are living this and you continue to live it. Yeah. And what would you say and share around alcohol? What you've learned, even as a woman who was working out, eating right, taking care of yourself. What could you share with the women who are doing the same?
Julianne Serpa (35:57.972)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (36:09.016)
Mm.
Julianne Serpa (36:13.132)
I mean, curiosity is key. It's not on me to say everyone should try five days alcohol, but just pay attention, pay attention to how it makes you feel in the moment, how it makes you feel 12 hours later, and then decide, is this something that is additive to my life? Is this something that is bringing more love into my own being and into the world? Like, is it really serving you?
Maureen Benkovich (36:18.197)
No!
Julianne Serpa (36:43.056)
interesting things in 2020 was how hard and quickly leaders worked to ensure access to alcohol, to have more liberal alcohol takeout laws and delivery and all these things. And it's just, it's really fascinating, like how it's so ingrained in society and normalized. And then
Maureen Benkovich (36:52.909)
Yes, interesting.
Maureen Benkovich (37:08.269)
Yeah, as long as I can get my alcohol.
Julianne Serpa (37:11.158)
And then what can happen outside of, you know, what's normal is really cool. Like when I go to family gatherings now and I'm not drinking, I can connect with my nieces and my nephews in a way that I never have. And it's in a very pure way. And I remember everything. And then any highs and surges of love and gratitude that I experienced, they're not tainted with any substance. It's very pure.
Maureen Benkovich (37:39.074)
It's very pure and you don't wake up the next day saying, did I say that or do that? Yeah, I'm cringing. Yeah, I don't miss that feeling at all. I share that all the time on here and so do most of my guests that, you know, I don't ever wake up going, man, I wish I drank last night. Like, I don't know about you, but yeah. Yeah. I love I use the word very pure because we are marketed to and we tend to listen to and we see it on television that here's how you connect.
Julianne Serpa (37:43.146)
Yeah, or any cringy, embarrassing things, sure.
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (37:57.538)
Right? Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (38:08.363)
you drink together and this is how you connect. But I've found and I'd love for you to share your experience. I connect so much more now because I'm not drinking. I'm not focused on getting another drink. I'm actually listening. I'm actually questioning, learning and really connecting. Do you find that to be the case?
Julianne Serpa (38:27.81)
yeah.
Yeah, and I know I bring a lot back to yoga, but it's so woven and a part of me. But how I come to understand it from a yogic perspective is that everything is filled with this aliveness. And you can even go so far as to say everything is filled with divinity, like you and everything outside of you. And using any substance that alters your sense of perception and consciousness
is fundamentally veiling those things. And it can veil the suffering, sure. It can veil maybe strong dislike for a political person or whatever you're trying to numb from. But then it can also veil you from how much you love your partner or how much you love a sunset or whatever sensations make you feel alive. They're being altered by things that you put in your system.
Maureen Benkovich (39:01.261)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:15.693)
Mm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:19.81)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (39:27.189)
It's such an important point because alcohol cannot selectively numb is what I hear you saying. And it is true. So, and all those things you might be numbing from, those are all temporary, right? That political person is still going to be there. That situation is still going to be there. The fact that you and your husband might be arguing is going to be there. And alcohol doesn't change any of that. just temporarily numbs you and it changes your brain chemistry. So the things that used to give you joy don't feel so full of joy anymore.
Julianne Serpa (39:31.522)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (39:43.842)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (39:55.886)
you
Maureen Benkovich (39:56.61)
You know, it cannot selectively numb. So I love that you're saying that. Vailing is the word you used. Yeah. And so tell us about your Sapper Spirit Foundation. That for teaching, you want to teach other teachers sort of like all of this wisdom you've gained and your experience. Tell us about that. Is it in the works, I think?
Julianne Serpa (40:01.952)
Yeah, yeah.
Julianne Serpa (40:16.279)
Yes.
So it's a long-term vision. But right now, yeah, I'm just working on, I call myself a teacher of yoga and other wonders. So I teach from the Pranakriya or like Kripalu yoga lineage. And it's wonderful that yoga is available freely on YouTube and on Zoom, et cetera. But there's something to be said for highly skilled teachers that work with students in community
Maureen Benkovich (40:19.437)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (40:27.34)
Wonders.
Julianne Serpa (40:47.548)
hands-on, you know, in a shared space as I'm sure you experience, you know, as a regular practitioner, there's something to those spaces. And I'm afraid they're being lost. And there's, you know, even this move for like AI teaching. And AI can spout out all kinds of cues and poses and sequences. But does the AI have heart? Can it discern like where a student is, you know, emotionally or energetically on their path and how best
Maureen Benkovich (41:03.789)
you
Julianne Serpa (41:17.45)
to support them or create a space for them to explore. long term I want to ensure that in person authentic yoga instruction is available to as many people as possible and that these ancient teachings are not lost forever in favor of short form content and on demand yoga classes.
Maureen Benkovich (41:42.614)
Yeah, keeping it pure again. I did not become a regular practitioner of while I was drinking. No, I didn't want to do that. But it wasn't until after I stopped drinking that I recognized again how good the whole breathwork movement, learning how to adapt. But I will tell you, I've never experienced until Julie, Julianne's class that she brought in this instrument. You have to explain it.
Julianne Serpa (41:49.998)
Mm.
Julianne Serpa (42:06.55)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (42:07.029)
As a non-yogi, I'm going to butcher it if I try. But it was so cool at the end of the class, you played this, it looked like an accordion type thing and it was beautiful. And the feeling that washed over me, I was surprised. I didn't expect. And I think that was beautiful. Certainly not something an AI could bring to class. So could you share with that a little bit?
Julianne Serpa (42:10.05)
Ha ha ha ha.
Julianne Serpa (42:16.43)
Mm-hmm.
Julianne Serpa (42:24.142)
Yeah. Well, I'm so curious. What did you feel when I played?
Maureen Benkovich (42:30.705)
I just loved it. felt relaxed and I think music affects you differently than at least me, anything else. I felt very emotional. Like a release. Yeah, I really loved it.
Julianne Serpa (42:34.476)
Mmm.
Julianne Serpa (42:41.208)
Bye.
Yeah, so this instrument is called a harmonium. So it's sort of like a cross between an accordion and a little piano. And I use it as an instrument to accompany chanting. So we chant things like om and chanty. And then I also lead, you know, other types of chanting. And I like to make it musical.
And with my harmonium, like leading kirtan, you can make room to feel all things. So there's some chanting that can bring you down or that can help you to process grief. And then there's other chants that can really elevate you and make you feel really alive and make you want to get up and dance. And the vibrations from the instrument have an effect. They also, you know, it harmonizes really well with voices. So I don't consider myself a vocalist.
by any means, but it helps to carry the tune. then chanting itself, I mean, that is the original sound bath. And I know sound baths are very trendy. You people like the bowls and the bells and the chimes and this and that, but you know, the yogis were discovering this thousands of years ago and nobody was teaching them. It comes from inside. These are things that can arise spontaneously if you make room for it.
Maureen Benkovich (44:01.825)
that willingness again.
Julianne Serpa (44:07.6)
And then we can mimic it and we can explore it. And doing it in community is really something special to receive the vibrations from everyone and to come into resonance together.
Maureen Benkovich (44:20.279)
And for someone like me, always like to understand the science behind it. So the vagus nerve, the stimulation, the chanting, that once I understood that, I'm like, okay, this makes sense. I'll give it a try. I always kind of need that behind that. Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (44:24.608)
Yes.
Julianne Serpa (44:31.127)
It does.
It does tone the vagus nerve. Yeah, so can be really calming for the nervous system. I was just introducing my nieces. They're in kindergarten, they're twins, and they have a lot of energy. So in yoga terms, we would say they're like very Rajasic. And I started playing the harmonium and then they just, you could see their whole being settle. And then they came beside me, one of them laid down. They were very curious about oming. And then with each repetition, you could see their jaws.
Maureen Benkovich (44:37.196)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (44:44.269)
Yeah
Julianne Serpa (45:02.592)
soften and their eyes soften and they embodied this presence that I've never observed in my nieces before.
Maureen Benkovich (45:05.485)
Hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (45:09.453)
Boy, that could be a whole other podcast episode about helping children to detach from their devices and experience. That's beautiful. That could be another workshop for you. Well, I love to ask people at the end of our interview, what do you do to be sober fit? I mean, I yoga is going to be one of the answers, but what else do you do?
Julianne Serpa (45:15.246)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Julianne Serpa (45:26.762)
Yeah, totally. What do I do to be so worth it? Well, like the super yogi answer would be, I don't have to do anything. It's who I am. You know, and that's, that's what at the core of yoga is teaching that what you are, it's called Sat Chittananda.
And that means truth, consciousness, and bliss. And that's what you are under all the layers and what all the practices of yoga help to do. It's like if you're wearing dirty glasses, you get to kind of clean off the glasses and see and feel more clearly. obviously like yoga and breath work, meditation and music, those are key ways that I do that. And also dance. I love to dance and
Maureen Benkovich (45:47.841)
Mmm.
Maureen Benkovich (46:10.827)
Hmm.
Julianne Serpa (46:14.84)
I used to love dancing at bars and on bars and you know, life of the party. But I've since discovered things like ecstatic dance and five rhythms. So these are spaces that are designed to be, you know, sober spaces and also take the pressure off of socializing. Some people aren't really there to make friends. They're there to move. And then if you want to socialize after you can. So dance. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (46:18.221)
I've been there.
Maureen Benkovich (46:31.191)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (46:41.853)
I want to hear more about that. Well, how can people find you, Julianne, and experience your teaching and some of this dancing maybe? And what would you like to tell people about how to reach you?
Julianne Serpa (46:50.263)
Yeah.
So my website is SapperSpirit.com and that's spelled S as in spirit, A-P-P-E-R, Sapper Spirit. I'm also on Instagram under the same handle. I have a newsletter, I have a sub stack where I write all about my yoga journey and about Ayurveda. So there's other ways to see what I'm up to and I teach yoga all around Annapolis and in other places.
coming up in Northern Virginia this summer in Rockville. You can come to a kirtan. Those happen usually about once a month. So if you're curious about kirtan, yeah, I hope you'll come experience it. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (47:33.227)
I am curious, so I'm going to check it out. And this will all be in the show notes, everybody, so you can look up how to find Julianne, how to connect with her. I love talking with you and I can never say the Sanskrit words. Is that what it is? Sanskrit? Am I saying the right yoga?
Julianne Serpa (47:49.128)
I, you know, tomato, tomato, Sanskrit, Sanskrit. I'm not a scholar, this is the...
Maureen Benkovich (47:52.033)
See, I can't even say that. But I always think it's interesting to hear the meaning behind them. But yeah, I love your energy and I hope to connect with you again in person. And thank you so much for being a guest on Sober Fit Life podcast.
Julianne Serpa (47:58.391)
Yeah.
Julianne Serpa (48:07.244)
Yeah, so glad to be here. Thank you.
