Maureen Benkovich (00:01.084)
Welcome back to Sober Fit Life. I am really excited today to bring on a guest that I met at a woman's entrepreneurial conference in California. I think it was like two years ago now. Yeah. And it was a really fun retreat with other women, mostly coaches. Many of us, I think all of us actually had stopped drinking and we're turning our experiences into some sort of coaching around changing our relationship with alcohol. But when I met Rebecca,
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (00:11.0)
Can you believe it?
Maureen Benkovich (00:30.224)
She just has this magnetic personality. She's so interesting. She's an artist, very creative. And she takes that art and her love for art and helps people when they're changing their relationship with alcohol to tap into their creativity. And so that helps them to really reclaim their lives from alcohol, old patterns and limiting beliefs, not just by talking, which is important, but also creating. So we're going to get into that a little bit today.
you have a coaching journey called Unfold. I love the name of that title. so we want to hear more about that. And she does beloved watercolor workshops, really tapping into that creativity. Rebecca invites women to awaken their wild, wise, deeply creative selves and remember who they were before they were told by the world who they should be. Rebecca, I'm so glad to have you here today on Sober Fitlife. How are you?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (01:26.668)
Thank you for having me. doing well. It's good to see you and be together again.
Maureen Benkovich (01:31.826)
Yeah, we were just talking before recording that both of us have been blessed to have just been in Europe. I was in a Mediterranean cruise, Turkey and Greece, and then ending Rome, and you were just in France.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (01:37.912)
Yes.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (01:45.388)
Yes, that's right. So we left our energy there.
Maureen Benkovich (01:46.962)
Yeah. Well, but it's so different, right? You come back from a vacation like that when you're not drinking and you don't need a vacation from your vacation.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (01:58.83)
Good point, yeah, because you're not all tapped out and yeah, very good point. I think I was sharing with you that going back to Paris.
It was my first time being in that city, know, living this alcohol-free lifestyle. And I've been to many places since I've changed my relationship with alcohol, but that was just one, I think the last time I was there was maybe nine years ago. yeah, so it's always just a little reminder to me, you know, how life was before.
Maureen Benkovich (02:32.826)
Okay.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (02:35.886)
and how great it is to like what you said, you know, you don't need a vacation from your vacation because you've been present and you're waking up every day to new experiences and you're, you you feel good. So it's awesome.
Maureen Benkovich (02:51.344)
Yeah, I still pinch myself all the time like, wow, this is my life now. You know? Right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (02:56.91)
I know. might sound kind of corny because I remember when I was, you know, I so much identified as a drinker, a red wine drinker. I mean, that was part of my identity. And I'm glad that we can chuckle and laugh about, know, because I probably used to have the mentality of what's wrong with you, you know, if you're not drinking, right? That's kind of funny to see the full circle. But yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (03:08.838)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (03:15.292)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (03:22.037)
yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (03:25.426)
It is, is, and that's why we can relate to the women, the people that we coach because we were there.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (03:31.272)
Absolutely. Wow. Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (03:33.862)
But when you and I met in California at this conference, what was going on with you at the time? How far into your alcohol free lifestyle had you been?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (03:43.726)
So let's see, was that in 2023 or 2024? Yeah, late 23 maybe, maybe two and a half years ago. So probably I had been alcohol-free for almost two years. for me, I became really curious.
Maureen Benkovich (03:47.954)
22 or 23, I'm terrible. Yeah, I think maybe 23.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (04:08.398)
about my relationship with alcohol in my late 50s, I would say is when I realized I just knew I was drinking way too much. And so yeah, I made the big change like at 60 and...
So my love has turned into really working with women in this well into midlife, know, 65 now, it'd be 66 in just a few weeks. But thank you so much. I feel really good. And yeah, it's just you I think you do kind of when you finally make the change and we can talk about the journey to get there because it's.
Maureen Benkovich (04:37.191)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (04:41.746)
You look amazing, by the way, you do.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (04:59.534)
You know, it's different for everyone and we all have our, it's never a straight line to the goal. A lot of twists and turns. And for me personally, because I had been drinking my entire adult life and I had started drinking really young, like young, like 13 was the first time. Yeah. And.
Maureen Benkovich (05:08.486)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (05:22.758)
Yeah, same with me.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (05:28.52)
I didn't grow up in a family. This is what's so crazy. So it was kind of the opposite in my family. So there was not alcohol in the house. But it was, I come from a large Hispanic family and some of relatives did, but it was not like, you know, a big thing in my personal intimate family.
However, the culture in the 70s, and I grew up in Los Angeles and Southern California, and it was a very sort of free-spirited time. was a lot of, I just remember having lots of freedom, like at 15 and 16, even in high school, to be able to come and go as we pleased. And I had older siblings and kind of the party thing and...
Maureen Benkovich (06:02.258)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (06:18.892)
The only thing I knew about alcohol really was probably more from like a religious thing, like, you know, alcohol bad, God doesn't like alcohol, you know, that sort of thing. So of course, when you're a teenager, at least the kind I was just always, you know, wanting to experiment and curious and, and yeah, you never come from a bad place, you know, yeah, you just kind of, and there was a slumber party.
Maureen Benkovich (06:43.783)
Right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (06:48.034)
of some of my friends and somebody had older siblings that brought a six pack of beer into, you know, I just remember it showing up and I knew that I wanted to try it. I wanted to taste it. I was curious and it was those old English 101. I don't even know if they make that anymore and I've never been a beer drinker but that was my first taste of alcohol and I was so sick.
Maureen Benkovich (07:01.618)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (07:15.692)
Yeah, I got really, really sick. And the next morning, you know, I didn't understand Hangover. I didn't know what was happening. I just was really sick. But I do remember feeling that kind of a little bit of the numbing, a little bit of the... It's not really euphoric, but you you feel...
like a little fuzzy around the edges and a little maybe more relaxed, a little more wanting to fit in, be cool. And that always kind of stuck with me. I liked that.
Maureen Benkovich (07:50.802)
I was going to say, did you recall that you actually liked it? Yes. Sure. But it always starts out kind of innocently, right? And whether we have older brothers and sisters, I was the same way, being a bit of a rebel. Of course you want to try this thing, being curious. but then fast forward kind of, so you try this, you get sick, but yet, and I had that experience too, we go back to it.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (07:53.728)
I liked that. I don't like the being sick part at all.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (08:15.054)
Yes, and it was probably at a party, you know, maybe fast forward a year or now I'm in high school because that was junior high school. So now I'm in high school and maybe around the 15, 16. And I remember there was always, always alcohol at football games, at the parties, after the football games, at the dances. Yeah, it was always a thing. Like, right. Somebody always had it.
I always partook. Actually, looking back now, some really scary times like grateful to be alive, know, or being with people that, yes, yes. And so then, you know, pretty typical early 20s, I got married young, a first marriage and...
Maureen Benkovich (08:52.114)
driving, drinking, driving, being in a car with someone driving. Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (09:09.242)
That was not a real healthy relationship and there was drinking and he was older and could buy, was already 20, you know, at the time I guess 23. And because I hadn't really been educated about alcohol in the way that we know now.
Maureen Benkovich (09:30.212)
now. Yeah, mean, none of us were. We didn't know we were doing. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (09:34.99)
Exactly. It was just kind of the, you know, let's go have fun. You want to be older. You want to be grown up. You want to be glamorous. Very visual. Yeah, but then it was in that relationship, I saw the ugly side of alcohol, like where it turns people into, you know, maybe somebody like totally it just, you know, you don't.
Maureen Benkovich (10:01.778)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (10:04.142)
you're not dealing with somebody in the right mind and then I would also drink and then that relationship ended very quickly because I recognized that I wasn't going to live in this this why I was young like 21, 22 and I knew
Maureen Benkovich (10:20.209)
early on.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (10:21.89)
that I was not going to grow old in this kind of craziness. know, good people, but just doing really, really bad things to ourselves with the drinking. And I had a son. We had a son in that marriage, but it ended early. And then there was a lot of judgment around me leaving that relationship because, you know, we're going way back.
Maureen Benkovich (10:29.138)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (10:50.028)
It was kind of like, you you don't divorce in my family. It's kind of that, a little bit of the underlying guilt and shame, embarrassed enough about why the relationship was ending, because there was a lot of stuff that shouldn't be going on.
Maureen Benkovich (10:52.762)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (11:05.029)
Well, and we didn't talk about things like we do now, right? You could never imagine you'd be on a podcast right now talking about this back then.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (11:11.694)
Exactly, exactly. But it was devastating and I was scared. And I recognize now that drinking became kind of a numbing agent during that period of time. I wasn't a daily drinker then. I was working and we would, you there was a of happy hours.
Maureen Benkovich (11:29.467)
Right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (11:40.802)
and social drinking and I think it was probably more of a binge drinker back then because I remember not drinking all the time. It wasn't the culture yet for me but when I would go out I'd always have a few cocktails and many times one too many.
Maureen Benkovich (11:59.945)
yeah. I was a binge drinker, weekend binge drinker, so I can completely relate.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (12:04.202)
Yeah, the 20s and 30s, but I was also a young mom. I remarried in my mid 20s and I'm still married to my husband now. 39 years. It seems crazy that I'm still married.
Maureen Benkovich (12:17.776)
Yeah. And you shared with me that you too, at some point moved to like the country or country, suburban area. had a lot of vineyards. It was a vineyard culture.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (12:27.062)
Man, the state, yeah. So we moved from California to the Texas Hill Country, which has like a wine trail kind of culture. I did that once we were empty nasters because the kids were up and out. so.
Maureen Benkovich (12:32.796)
That's it.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (12:45.55)
we moved to, yes, to the, it's beautiful, the Texas whole country. And I think I kind of felt, and this is now I'm approaching into my close to 50s at this point. And so during the 20s, 30s, my 30s, 40s, 50s, it was about,
Maureen Benkovich (12:50.738)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (13:08.078)
working and doing it all, you know, the women, you know, we could do it all. We could work. We can bring home the bacon. can be great. Yeah. Remember that commercial? You know, you're supposed to be sexy and make money and still be a wife and a man, know, a bunch of BS. Who's going to do it? You're going to do it all because you're a woman in the seventies and early eighties. It's so, you know, yeah, marketing.
Maureen Benkovich (13:14.45)
Fry it up in a pan. Charlie. Yeah, I do.
Maureen Benkovich (13:25.042)
And be able to party. Right. Right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (13:36.942)
Anyway, I dealt with a lot of what life threw at me and there was a lot. You know, there was divorce, loss of a child that had been born and lived one month. There were...
just all the difficulties that come with relationships and having children where you're sharing custody. even though that probably went pretty well, it's still, think, because I didn't have words. I was never really that great at expressing or causing waves or I don't like confrontation. And so I think I drank, really.
Maureen Benkovich (14:25.49)
Yeah. Yeah. You're ticking a lot of the boxes, you know, from starting early and then the traumatic first marriage and then dealing with the cultural shame of the divorce and alcohol was there through all of it. But we didn't know. We didn't know. We didn't know. Right. We were just doing the best we could with what we had.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (14:27.128)
for that reason.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (14:44.298)
Right. Yeah. And we never looked at it as a drug, either like cocaine or some of the other things that were going on then. Not that I didn't have one. Yes, it is. We know it now. I even remember with my kids during the 90s, during the Just Say No to Drugs campaign. But yet everybody had a drink in their hand telling their kids just say no to You know, I look at that now and it's like we have one liquid drug and we're saying, but you know.
Maureen Benkovich (14:50.607)
Nope.
Because of clever marketing, because of clever marketing, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (15:09.105)
Right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (15:14.306)
you know, yeah, all these kind of oxymorons, all this stuff that doesn't mean anything.
Maureen Benkovich (15:17.264)
Yeah. Well, and we were meant to be, you know, as the lobbyists, they're very powerful, the alcohol industry, big alcohol as we call it. And they lobbied very hard to have that drugs and alcohol statement to separate it out. So that we're like, well, we don't do drugs, you know, but we drank.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (15:29.485)
Yeah.
You're right. But we drink. Yeah, we drink. Everybody drinks. know, what are you told? Take the edge off, you know. Yeah, you're sad. let's have a glass of wine. Or you're celebrating. let's have a glass of wine.
Maureen Benkovich (15:35.698)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Maureen Benkovich (15:44.786)
Everything. So when you're in your 50s, you're living in this beautiful community, there's vineyards and your lifestyle is becoming sort of revolving around this, if I remember what you were telling me.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (15:54.698)
It sort of did because we were, it's so funny to think about, I made such great girlfriends that were my age and older and we all rallied around, you know, having wine in the evenings or playing, you know, all of the cliches you hear about what women do, know, banco and we used to do all, we call it dranco because that's really what we would do.
Maureen Benkovich (16:18.258)
Yeah, sure. It was an excuse to get together and drink like book club, know, all those things.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (16:24.948)
anything was an excuse, right? And I was always the one, I brought my bottle of wine and I wanted everyone's glass to be just as full as mine. That was all fine and good if it had remained that way. You know, I looked at it.
Maureen Benkovich (16:32.306)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (16:45.187)
When did it turn? When did it change for you?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (16:49.6)
I think when it became a daily thing to open up a bottle of wine at dinnertime, and it was like an excuse to be, you know, it's what you did. And then during dinner and, you know, I was having wine every night. And it may have started out with sharing a bottle of wine.
But now, you know, three, four years in, you're drinking your own bottle of wine and then some. And then I found myself drinking before events were to be like, yeah, right. So I'd have a drink really quick at home. All the things that we start doing.
Maureen Benkovich (17:44.048)
Now, was that for any sort of like social anxiety or just you were feeling like, I want to get one more drink on before I go there.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (17:49.838)
You know, it's so interesting, Maureen, because now we have awareness and insight, right? And I can look at it very differently. But I think at the time...
I didn't give it much thought really like that. I think I just wanted to feel a little bit best. But probably it was. Yeah, but it must be some form of me showing up just like this is not enough or I don't feel, whatever it is. I love that we can talk about, because these are the important questions.
Maureen Benkovich (18:07.622)
Yeah, I didn't either. I didn't know it was social anxiety. I just wanted to feel looser. wanted to, yeah, but it was.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Good enough.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (18:30.318)
that we need to ask ourselves when we start thinking, I drinking too much? And if I am, you know, maybe you get shame with that thought, but we're trying to change that culture to be, no, don't, don't have shame. We don't think that when we're thinking, am I drinking too much coffee? You don't have like, oh, a shitload of shame. Like, oh my God, I'm a cosmaholic, you know, because I'm trying to change. But it's like, we think, you know, you start thinking these things and it was starting to become a problem.
Maureen Benkovich (18:38.226)
Mm-hmm, of course.
Maureen Benkovich (18:44.914)
Mm-hmm.
Right. I'm not going to tell anybody I'm having too much coffee. Right. Exactly.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (19:00.994)
because I started hiding how much I was drinking. And my husband, he was a social drinker, but he, I don't know if it's just my spirit. I kind of have this free spirit. I'm like a gypsy spirit. It's very easy for me. It was very easy for me to kind of just let loose and let go where maybe he's more of a, I need to be, you know, the take care, the more in control person. We definitely have those different personalities. So.
Maureen Benkovich (19:13.522)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (19:31.712)
Maybe it started at first where I didn't want him to worry about me, like, I've got this, he doesn't need to write. But that was a lie telling myself because it became to where I don't really, I don't have this. I'm taking swigs in the other room while everybody's just enjoying their wine out here and then I'm coming out to enjoy the wine out here. That started happening that decade in my 50s.
Maureen Benkovich (19:35.154)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (19:56.038)
And did that register at the moment when you were, say, going to the kitchen, having a couple quick shots of wine, were you like, ooh, I shouldn't be doing this? Or did it just not even register at that time? Or you just suppressed it? Which, know.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (20:10.934)
I think that if I did think, I shouldn't be doing this, it wasn't because it was my own limit. It was because I didn't want maybe him or my grown children or other family members to maybe think, she's way more there than any of us. We're all just having a glass of wine.
Maureen Benkovich (20:20.423)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (20:35.964)
Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (20:39.118)
Rebecca's like three sheets, you know? And of course you don't think you are.
Maureen Benkovich (20:44.508)
That was my next question because for me, I drink like two martinis before dinner and I'm thinking I'm fine. And then of course the next day I realized I wasn't. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (20:47.227)
You show up, you think you're in the game.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (20:55.852)
No, of course not. And I mean, I think we get pretty good at, you know, alcohol. It's just such a sneaky, negative, dark energy. And so I look at it very much as, I think we've probably talked about this too, like an abusive relationship. It almost is because,
Maureen Benkovich (21:09.735)
It is.
Maureen Benkovich (21:20.07)
Mm, toxic boyfriend. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (21:24.438)
It kind of lures you in and it's on your side when you're being sneaky or you're, know, it's like that girlfriend that's like, come on, you know, whatever that be that energy becomes that or it did for me.
Maureen Benkovich (21:29.681)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (21:37.692)
Me too. No, it's a great visual. Definitely. And you know, like the toxic boyfriend, you keep taking him back because you're like, it's going to be different this time. Things are going to change. I'm in control.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (21:46.178)
Yeah, I'm in control. I've got this. I'm in control. I'm in control. think I really thought I was in control.
Maureen Benkovich (21:53.298)
And yeah, and that's the journey of, of when we start to become aware of we stopped for a while and then we like, I got this. Okay. I stopped for 10 days. I can go back to drinking. Right. Right. Yeah, I got that.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (22:00.266)
Yeah. yeah. I aced the 30 day and I thought, no problem here. And that was after that decade. I call it the decade 50s because I 60 had got it had gotten where I was really allowing alcohol to abuse me and I was abusing it.
Maureen Benkovich (22:16.551)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (22:25.234)
And did your husband know or did you keep it from him?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (22:29.006)
he knew enough to where, see, I would become very defensive and very, you know, I mean, if you told me you thought I was drinking too much, I was going to show you what drinking too much really looked like.
Maureen Benkovich (22:31.09)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (22:36.7)
Me too.
Maureen Benkovich (22:44.662)
I can relate to that. My husband would say, okay, tonight we need a strategy. Well, when he used the we, I'd like, you can take your we and you can shove it. I'm going to go out. Like that just did not work on me.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (22:51.054)
You use your own strength. I'm on my own here. I know what is it about as we become so defiant. Like, I'm telling you, it's really this conniving energy. And now I can look at it like that, which is the reason, one of the reasons I think when I finally decided.
Maureen Benkovich (23:00.999)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (23:05.775)
I agree.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (23:17.27)
that I've had enough. just had no clue how to make it last.
Maureen Benkovich (23:23.878)
Me neither. I think this is so important though, I just want to stop here because by this time you're in your 60s.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (23:29.614)
Yeah, well, I had just turned 60 when I discovered, right before, I think I was 59, right around there, I can't remember, but when I came across the quote by Annie Grace, said,
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (23:47.726)
Would your life be happier if you were drinking less? What would it feel like if alcohol was small and irrelevant in your life? And that just like, boom, it just res, that was like, well, I didn't say you can't drink, you have a problem, you're a drink. It was just kind of this thing. what, so that's.
Maureen Benkovich (23:56.828)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (24:02.695)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (24:09.744)
It was the curiosity piece. So we were just always shaming and blaming ourselves like, man, I'm drinking too much. I don't want to tell anybody. I'm going to pretend that didn't happen. But that question, because I saw it too, and that means you and I are both doing research. Am I an alcoholic? You're Googling. What can I do? And that popped up. But that was that like all of sudden someone was asking it in a curious way. What if your life could be different and you're small? Yes, it was brilliant.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (24:31.244)
Yes.
if alcohol was small and irrelevant. I love that wording because it could, you know, and it definitely was not that to me at that point. In fact, I was coming home. I remember specifically I had been.
Maureen Benkovich (24:39.218)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (24:46.578)
Eww.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (24:53.646)
kind of on a girls' trip for the weekend, there was a lot of wine drinking and I was flying home. We all lived in different places, so we all went our separate ways and of course, I was probably into my second glass of wine. And I think I was, when I was Googling was, is red wine good for you or how much isn't, you know, that whole thing because of the antioxidants and if you're gonna drink, wine. yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (25:14.886)
Yeah, and that was probably like your eighth time ever Googling that. Like, looking for the confirmation bias. We want to find the answer. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (25:21.836)
You want to find it, you want to, yeah, say, aha. And then of course I'd ignore the, you know, four ounces of red wine. It's like.
Maureen Benkovich (25:26.513)
You can.
Maureen Benkovich (25:30.992)
Right. Who drinks that? That's too time consuming. it all in one glass.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (25:36.462)
But that's what popped up and it just really, really stayed with me. But I think I waited a whole year and did a 30 day break during COVID. Because COVID hit months after that and everybody was drinking more. They drank, everybody that drank was drinking more, at least in my world.
Maureen Benkovich (25:49.319)
Yes.
everybody.
Maureen Benkovich (25:58.802)
yeah, we get on Zooms of happy hours, like at two in the afternoon, three. Yeah, was ridiculous. Yeah, it was just a big excuse, a big, I mean, we were all stressed. We didn't know what was going on and we were using it to numb and calm ourselves down. Yeah, again, doing the best we could with what we had.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (26:01.43)
We are Number That. Happy Hours on Zoom.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (26:06.868)
start Zoom at 1 today.
Yeah, excuse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (26:22.712)
But you know, Maureen, what started happening is it started catching up to me in the sense that I was feeling really bloated. I had always kind of, I'd always been interested in health and aging well, mentally, physically, spiritually. You know, I always sought.
after these spiritual masters, just taught me so much and they still do. And like I loved Tai Chi and yoga and anything that was balance, know, balance, helping me balance and just, I was soaking up so much information about like the universe and potential, but you know, I was drinking a lot of wine.
And I started realizing that I wasn't painting as much anymore. I didn't really even want to. And so my creativity was really, well, was being numbed out.
Maureen Benkovich (27:30.396)
Yeah, because we can't selectively numb with alcohol, right? You want to numb the bad stuff, COVID going on, but it's dulling your creativity. You were finding, and I know that was so important to you all throughout your life, your creativity.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (27:34.381)
No.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (27:43.948)
Yeah, and now it was like, I think I'll just drink instead of paint. It keeps you really small.
But I did, so then during that COVID period, had a, you know, I was drinking so much and I thought, you know, let me take, I kind of started looking up Annie, this Annie Grace again. And I started listening to some podcasts and it just like with all of us that have listened to her and, you know, have been taught by her.
so much of it just resonates because we all end up realizing we have so much of the same story. Anybody that's over drinking, all, once we start talking about it openly and without shame and any kind of criticism or there's anything wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with us, it's an addictive substance, we got addicted to an addictive substance, exactly, that's what it's supposed to do. And when you can look at it like that, which is what I hope our messages,
Maureen Benkovich (28:37.052)
Yeah, it's a drug.
Maureen Benkovich (28:46.834)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (28:47.404)
on these podcasts is, yeah, there's nothing wrong with you questioning it. And there's nothing wrong with you wondering, could I, you what would it be like? So I did a 30 day break. Like I said, I think, mentally I was ready because I was kind of sick of the alcoholic. It was kind of making me gag. This is so weird. I remember really wanted, and you're not getting the same. I wasn't even getting the same buzz anymore.
Maureen Benkovich (29:09.598)
yeah, we keep drinking even though we didn't really enjoy it anymore.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (29:17.358)
It was taking me a lot more alcohol to even feel what I thought I was chasing. So anyway, ace that 30 day, I I don't have a problem. I can really moderate. But what I discovered that year was that when life really hits you, the things that can come our way, don't know, it could be anything, but anything devastating.
If we don't have the tools and I did not, just to say, I don't want to drink for 30 days. was one thing, but when I was faced and I'm pretty, I always consider myself pretty stable, pretty strong, know, emotionally, I'm not like all over the place typically, but when something hits you that you're not prepared for, it was just like spiral. I thought, just tonight I'm going to drink. remember that.
And I had been like maybe three months of maybe having a glass of wine once a week. Because I still hadn't decided that I just really didn't want to, I wanted to become, I didn't know that I wanted to become a non-drinker then. So that set me that was in July. And I drank heavily from that July to that December.
Maureen Benkovich (30:27.952)
Right, right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (30:39.694)
And it got ugly like internally, like it was really a struggle, a fight, like, like, do I even still really even need to be here, you know, that kind of When you're in the I wasn't thinking that way when I wasn't intoxicated. Been intoxicated, it was like another whole other I call it an energy, a voice was coming in.
Maureen Benkovich (30:50.182)
Yeah, it's such a depressant.
Maureen Benkovich (31:05.298)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (31:07.586)
And you're so three sheets, but yet you're aware of this conversation going on. You're in a different, almost a different dimension, if you will, with.
Maureen Benkovich (31:18.098)
Well, especially if you're drinking on a regular basis consistently, the brain chemistry is continuing to change because your brain is trying to adapt and survive actually. And yeah, so this is what's happening, this low level of anxiety and it doesn't take much like an event, a death in the family or something like that to push you over the edge. Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (31:26.678)
right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (31:37.358)
right over. Yeah. And that's when I realized, I mean, these people, when I say these people, the coaches that I was hearing and watching, it was like, wow, they've been here, right? And it's like, if I can get there and help even just one person, that was like my, my kind of my prayer.
Maureen Benkovich (31:59.217)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (32:05.134)
And of course, it's been, you know, two fold, three fold, fold since then, it really is being serious that you want to make a change. And then opening up yourself to the help that will come to you. That's the simplest way.
I can put it because you almost don't have to go looking. Once your heart opens to please, this is it, it's incredible to me how the help comes flooding in. Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (32:38.876)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (32:43.11)
Yeah, at first the awareness, right? Because when you were in that phase when we were drinking, we didn't care. You know, it wouldn't matter what anybody said. But when you start becoming aware, like, ooh, I this is not working for me anymore. I don't feel good. I don't like how I don't like who I am. Don't like how I'm showing up. But then when you learn to be vulnerable and you're in with a community of other people that are going through the same thing, people like you who, you know, are smart, intelligent, they're working hard, they care about their body.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (32:47.853)
right.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (32:58.348)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (33:10.274)
And they want to change their relationship with alcohol too. They haven't hit a rock bottom, but they're feeling pretty bad. Well, all that helped so much. I'm shaking my head yes to your whole story.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (33:15.938)
Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (33:20.77)
Because you can, is that kind of how you work?
Maureen Benkovich (33:22.832)
Yeah. yeah. And I was so depressed and I already had depression. I shared with you when I was on your podcast most of my life. And so this was just like, you know, pouring gasoline on a fire.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (33:34.542)
Yeah, boy, it's just if we again, I look at it as such a destructive force that that, you know, none of us begin, you know, being at a wedding and celebrating with glass champagne to say, you know, I hope one day I really have a problem with this liquid.
Maureen Benkovich (33:44.466)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (33:55.76)
Yeah. And it doesn't happen everybody. And I'm sure you have this with your clients. Some inevitably say, why can't I drink like so-and-so? You know, why am I struggling with this? And then we make that, that we are the problem and not the substance.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (34:11.426)
Substance exactly and we also don't know What that other person that we're comparing herself to is also going through and that's something that I had to learn a Couple of things like really try not to compare yourself right because Man, we're all individuals and we all have our unique You know gifts, but also our challenges
and we're all gonna go through the life differently. I think the only thing we do have in common is this yearning because we know there's something more. I mean, it's like, yes, there's that little nudge. I always say, you know, it starts with like an idea, like.
Maureen Benkovich (34:48.262)
Yeah. If you listen to it, if you listen to that yearning.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (34:59.512)
Can I really be a person that doesn't drink? So it's like an idea like that.
Maureen Benkovich (35:05.71)
Or let's call it curiosity. And that's why I want to weave in here. I love the name of your coaching business, your podcast, what you do. It's called Curious on Life. Because it does start with curiosity instead of beating yourself up and being willing to be open. So you went through coaching, you started making changes, you realized you wanted to help people, which is, which always helps us get out of ourselves.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (35:14.542)
Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (35:28.98)
Yes, it does. I just yes to all of that. And then as the years have gone on, I've realized that this journey giving up alcohol is just kind of it was huge. Like before I had done that, it felt like, you know, this wall that I could never scale or maybe I could.
Maureen Benkovich (35:34.193)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (35:43.462)
Yeah. So huge.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (35:51.086)
I felt like that was, if I could do that, then I've done it. But then you realize you do that and it's like, you get over the wall and there's this whole beautiful space that you can actually come in and help heal in your own way because everybody doesn't need what I'm.
Maureen Benkovich (36:11.73)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (36:17.682)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (36:17.876)
offering. Everybody doesn't need necessarily what Maureen's offering or what any of us that help people, you know, kick boost.
Maureen Benkovich (36:27.098)
I love that. That's a great segue because what you got back in touch with was your creativity. And then you thought, how can I help other people get in touch and use creativity for healing? Is that right?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (36:38.934)
And that's what happened. was like, and that wasn't a plan necessarily, but that's how it, that's how the universe worked with me when I opened up my heart and my mind and said, like, I'm an open vessel. And then things, you know, the, the workshops kind of started art as healing because for me, it's a way to access the part of ourselves that we don't have words for. It's really my own experience. And
Maureen Benkovich (36:43.665)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (37:06.77)
Mm Yeah.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (37:08.238)
That was always the safe space for me with painting. Like nobody could say, you know, you can't do that. That's just my place to express. And so what I've learned and now with a lot of other training and, know, through this like sound healing, vibrational healing, painting water, just watching the movement of water, you know, and
color, move around on paper. Just experiencing that is like this flow of energy and you can tap in and you feel so light and you're able to walk away from these experiences like so much lighter.
Maureen Benkovich (37:53.03)
The crazy thing is that actually gives you the high, the neurotransmitter boost we're looking for. it increases your feel-good neurotransmitters and for a much longer time, whereas alcohol is very short-term, but it depletes the neurotransmitters. you know, always coming from the science side of it. Yeah. But creativity and science completely work together because creativity is so good for our brain. So you start teaching. Yeah, natural.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (38:09.64)
Yes, which is so important, yes.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (38:17.44)
Yes, and it's the natural dopamine, right? The natural highs. It's so true.
Maureen Benkovich (38:22.812)
which is what we want and know, GABA and so then you're like, I'm gonna mix these two, coaching people and art and tell us about how Unfold Unfolded, I guess.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (38:33.634)
Well, Unfold, Unfolded, as I started working more and more with women and it felt like that was who came kind of looking for me or I was attracting women well into 60s and 70s and maybe had already given up the alcohol piece. And now Unfold started out because
Maureen Benkovich (38:50.204)
Makes sense.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (39:02.05)
We're learning the different pieces of us once alcohol is no longer. So like, just very simply, like it's an eight week program. like the first week could be about, you know, turning out the fog, getting out of the fog. And we do some creative work and we also do like coaching once a week.
I mean, there's some exercises, you and then like we talk about our reflecting our voice another week, creative courage, you know, there's just different topics each week where we end up with identifying and expressing who we want to be and then integration and then finishing it all up, you know, with celebration and radiance. So we're kind of out of the fog and into the brilliance. And that's why I just feel that women
Maureen Benkovich (39:39.41)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (39:44.69)
Love it.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (39:53.44)
especially because we carry so much and you know I've been doing some of the ancestral work and learning and I feel like the alcohol piece once we give that up and we say okay we have purpose we have so much more there is so much more to life than this liquid that we think
Maureen Benkovich (40:16.9)
Yeah, and you're bringing up such an important point because in this world of coaching that's grown massive, there's a lot of promises out there on the internet like you'll stop drinking and you'll lose 10 pounds and you'll feel great and your relationships will be wonderful. it's a process on the other side of alcohol too, to rediscover yourself and to continue the curiosity piece into your alcohol-free lifestyle. And it's a growth. mean, I'm over three and a half years now alcohol-free and I continue to grow and change and
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (40:34.946)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (40:46.798)
and learn. And so I think that's really important and I love your program. Yeah. Thank you.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (40:50.062)
Congratulations on that too. That's so cool. This December will be five. Yeah, it's like, and you know, I don't even, I'm probably like you. I mean, I don't, I have to really think about it. But yeah, so the alcohol really does become small and it's not even about, because then you start looking at so many things in life that are keeping you stuck. It may be alcohol was a big one for sure.
Maureen Benkovich (40:54.866)
That's wonderful.
Maureen Benkovich (41:07.452)
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (41:17.506)
But then you start, once you get that piece out of the way, and to your point, we begin to reinvent. We begin to imagine how do we want to show up in this world? We begin to get the support from each other that we can do just about anything we set our minds to do. And alcohol is such a liar, and it keeps us so, you know, that...
Maureen Benkovich (41:41.568)
It is small. I love how you say that. It keeps us small.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (41:45.334)
It really does. And so I think our message for women and for men, of course, that what I just I can relate so much more to, you know, women and that have gone through so many decades of life. Yeah, it's just to your point, we're constantly learning and the journey never ends. And who knows what's next year, right for us?
Maureen Benkovich (41:56.176)
Yeah, of course.
Maureen Benkovich (42:09.476)
No, it's the curiosity piece. So your title is so apropos, curious on life. And I want everybody to hear that you can change in your 60s and 70s and Rebecca has done it and is doing it and she's leading others through it with her creative programs and coaching. So how can people find you, Rebecca, if they're looking for you?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (42:29.728)
very easily. The website is my full name and I'm sure it's long though, RebeccaGivataWingler.com and then you can also find me on Instagram at Curious on Live.
Maureen Benkovich (42:35.686)
which will be in the show notes.
Maureen Benkovich (42:44.614)
Yeah. And you have a podcast too, correct?
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (42:46.486)
I do curious on life the podcast, so do check it out.
Maureen Benkovich (42:49.424)
Yeah, so check it out. And I'm so glad you came on to be a guest on Sober Fit Life. And I could talk to you for a long time. I really enjoy talking with you.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (42:58.274)
Thank you, Maureen, and thank you for having me, and thank you for creating this beautiful space for people to find freedom and live their best life at any stage in life.
Maureen Benkovich (43:09.18)
Thank you. Same to you. Stay curious on life, everybody.
Rebecca Guevara Wingler (43:12.43)
Awesome.
