Maureen Benkovich (00:00.878)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Sober Fit Life, where we talk about staying grounded, strong, and alcohol-free while navigating the real stuff that life throws at us. Today's episode is gonna be a powerful one. I am joined by Marie Burgess, founder of Genuine Connections Psychotherapy, a practice dedicated to helping people through one of life's most devastating experiences, grief after the death of a loved one, especially the loss of a child.
Marie works with parents, siblings, and families who are living through the unthinkable. She doesn't just offer clinical support, she has lived it. And part of her own healing journey includes sobriety, which adds a powerful personal layer to the work she does. She knows how tempting it is to numb pain with alcohol or substances and how choosing to stay present, even when it hurts, can lead to real connection and healing. Through individual therapy, brain spotting, and nature-based grief events,
Marie helps people take one steady breath at a time and slowly find their way forward. So Marie, thank you so much for coming on to Sober Fit Life. And I'm so excited to talk to you because it's such an important topic that I don't think it's talked about enough.
Marie Burgess (01:13.211)
I'm glad to be here and it's part of my mission to talk about the things that nobody wants to talk about. So being here is right on track with my values and the work that I do and I see it as important as well.
Maureen Benkovich (01:29.058)
Yeah. I first met you at a holistic community event. There were all kinds of coaches there, and we each had to tell a little bit about our story and who we serve. And when you told your story, I just thought, well, I wanted to talk to you more and have you share with my audience what you do. So would you mind sharing your story, how you ended up doing this with everybody?
Marie Burgess (01:53.053)
Yes, and you know, one of the things I like to say when I tell my story, and you might remember this from that day that we met, was, you know, there's always a question about how people get into the line of work that they do, you know, especially if it's something that they're really passionate about.
Maureen Benkovich (02:08.909)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (02:12.193)
And it's usually because they have some sort of experience that coincides with what their career is now. And that's true for me too. And my story started in 2011 when I had my son Harvey. having a family and having a child is life changing in and of itself.
And then when your child is born with rare, complex, severe medical conditions, well, that changes your life again. And that is what happened with us. And we knew that Harvey was going to come out fighting. And funny enough, I did not know that his name meant battle ready.
until I saw it was. And I was like, wow, he is a little warrior. He is fighting every day battles that, you know, none of us could see necessarily and fought battles just to live in a way that it made me want to fight too, right? Fight for him, fight for a good life, fight for what's important.
Maureen Benkovich (03:09.1)
Harvey means battle ready,
Marie Burgess (03:38.175)
You know, he put all of those things in perspective for us. And that's truly one of the gifts that he gave us. And it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's what brought me here. So when Harvey was born, I was working in a high school as a school counselor at the time. Another job that most people don't want to do because they're like, how are you choosing to work with teenagers? And it's like, well, it turns out I like them.
Maureen Benkovich (04:00.578)
Right?
Marie Burgess (04:07.937)
And I knew that I wasn't gonna, that job no longer fulfilled me in the way that it used to having undergone this life altering experience of being the mother of a medically complex child. And so I learned a lot through being his advocate and being his expert.
And then it just kind of helped also that I had always had an interest in grief. So you know, yeah, I know, right? You're like, what? Yes. Right? I'm telling you, the things that people don't want to talk about is what I like to talk about. The places people don't want to go is where I like to go. Because there's usually something there. And I think you know a little bit about that, right?
Maureen Benkovich (04:49.006)
That's interesting,
Maureen Benkovich (05:03.906)
I do alcohol, know, people don't really want to talk about that. It's a bit taboo, but when you dig deeper, there's so much there. Yes.
Marie Burgess (05:10.547)
Right, right. And so, you know, I was a kid and a grieving child that had questions that people didn't want to answer. So I went to find the answers and that's sort of how my interest in grief came about. So anytime I had a project I could do, I got to choose the topic of the paper or something, I was doing grief. I was doing cultural differences.
I was doing intersections of this and that because it was just fascinating to me how a universal experience like grief was so different from person to person. And my special brand of neurodivergence had a hard time with that gray area. And so I was seeking information.
And I knew when Harvey was given to me in this life that I was gonna need to lean on what I had learned about grief. And I do think, as I've gotten older, this is even more true. You like you get older and you realize, I don't know anything. I only know a very small bit of what there is to know in the world. And what I knew was that I was
Maureen Benkovich (06:27.49)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (06:32.002)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (06:35.745)
prepared to be his mom. Because I had all my special interests were like aligned with his conditions and it was very interesting indeed. And after Harvey died, you know, I knew that when I was ready, I wanted to put my grief to work because I you know, was traumatized. And I was just like, I cannot sit on this and and let it bring me down.
Maureen Benkovich (06:59.032)
Sure.
Marie Burgess (07:05.345)
I need to do something with it. I need it to have a purpose. I need there to be a meaning in this, you know, this life-changing thing that I've experienced, not just me, like my spouse and my family, that was my support network, Team Harvey, as they are so affectionately known. We have t-shirts, okay? It's official. If you have a t-shirt, it's official, okay? And I went back. I went back to school.
Maureen Benkovich (07:24.973)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (07:34.753)
and took, I was a million months pregnant, I like to say, with my third child when I went back to school to take a couple more classes to get my clinical license. And that was in 2019? 2018? No, he was born in 2017. Good Lord, I'm time traveling. I'm time traveling. Wow, it's almost been 10 years.
Maureen Benkovich (07:58.009)
Was, I want to ask you, was anybody there for you to help you through your grief?
Marie Burgess (08:04.457)
Yeah, absolutely. So I've been with my spouse for a long time. We've known each other longer than we haven't known each other. And we've been together for more than 20 years. And so he's like a rock, right? We lean on each other for everything. you know, the thing, cause you know, cause I'm a grief person, I joke about grief and death, you know, and you know, we sort of have this.
little fuss at each other every now and again about who gets to die next, right? You know, and we're like, it's gotta be me. And he's like, no, it's me. I can't live without you. I can't do it without you. But also, right, right? My immediate family, my parents, my husband's parents, my sister, and then the network just kind of went further and further out. And then, interestingly,
Maureen Benkovich (08:39.278)
Mm.
Maureen Benkovich (08:43.32)
I have similar discussions with my husband. Yeah, I get that. Yeah.
Marie Burgess (09:02.143)
And this is another place where people kind of go, huh, a huge support to us was hospice. Yes, really. Harvey was a pediatric. And it's again, it's part of my like, I need to talk about this. I need people to know that there is such thing as a pediatric hospice. That's the thing.
Maureen Benkovich (09:10.221)
Really.
Maureen Benkovich (09:13.656)
That's good to know.
Maureen Benkovich (09:27.374)
I had no idea, yeah. But it makes sense that there should be, unfortunately.
Marie Burgess (09:32.561)
Right, right. And Harvey was a pediatric hospice patient. And so just like, you know, what you understand about an elderly person who is on hospice, you know, he had a nurse that came to the house and they helped us with some things and created some space for us to be able to be with him. You know, as he was living out this terminal illness, and he ultimately died at home.
And that's another sort of layer to it all, right? It's like, well, what happens when somebody dies at home? And what does that look like? Can you look at your house the same way? Can you look at all these experiences? And so I was like, listen, I can't sit on this. I cannot sit on this. I need to tell people because it's not only honoring his story, but it also strengthens the relationship that we have, even though after he has.
Maureen Benkovich (10:01.486)
So sorry.
Maureen Benkovich (10:14.658)
Right.
Marie Burgess (10:31.029)
He has died now almost 10 years ago. And yet we have a stronger relationship now than ever.
Maureen Benkovich (10:38.722)
That's beautiful. And you took your grief and you went back to school and you've now turned it into helping other people going through this very specific grief of losing a child or children. And I noticed in your bio, of course, you helped not just the parents, but the siblings, everybody surrounding this whole situation. So can you talk about that, what that is like and how people find you, first of all, I guess, and then how do you take them through this process?
Marie Burgess (11:08.213)
Well, the finding part is an interesting one because when I was on the other side of this story, you know, where I was the grieving parent, I had a direct route because Harvey was a patient of hospice at the Chesapeake located in Anne Arundel County for listeners that aren't local in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. And
Because we were patients there, we knew about a lot of their services. And they offer bereavement services for 13 months after someone dies. They will provide free grief services to families. And they offered at the time a group, a child loss group, once a month on Saturdays.
And I went every month for two years. And my husband and I, our parents would come because we had an infant who was named Hudson. He was 10 months old and his brother died.
and they would come and they would stay with the infant and we would go to grief group. And it's not the date night that you're thinking of when you think I'm gonna go out with my spouse somewhere. We would go to grief group, cry, maybe get like some lunch or something and come back. And we did that every month for two years. And I had a direct shot because we were patients of hospice. And so,
Maureen Benkovich (12:30.829)
bright.
Maureen Benkovich (12:47.256)
But you were taking care of yourself. were, you know, we'll talk about this later. So many people want to not do what you had to do and go to grief group. They want to numb, not feel it, not talk about it, not acknowledge it. Or the people around them don't want to. And it sounds like you had very supportive parents. So, yeah.
Marie Burgess (13:05.865)
Yes, my parents, my husband's parents, know, the people around me were there for whatever we needed. And I know that that is a gift and it's cultivated, right? You know, our relationships have been cultivated over decades so that, you know, I could ask them the hard things and have the difficult conversations. Because when I was...
Maureen Benkovich (13:15.086)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (13:31.507)
you know, navigating one rare diagnosis after the next with Harvey. So he had, for listeners that are in the epilepsy community, they'll know about this, but he developed a rare form of epilepsy called infantile spasms.
and they are devastating. And it's where small children, infants, and newborns have hundreds of seizures a day, and they don't respond well to medications, like, at all. if you grow older,
Maureen Benkovich (14:01.562)
boy.
Marie Burgess (14:11.617)
and you can live through this condition and you can get treatment, that's one thing. But if you're resistant to the treatment or the medications aren't effective, which happens in a small percentage, and that's what happened to Harvey, you develop an additional rare disorder known as Lennox-Gastaut syndrome. It's devastating.
Maureen Benkovich (14:29.998)
Mm.
Marie Burgess (14:35.649)
and life limiting. And so we knew that he would not live past teen years. We were looking at maybe age 10. Unfortunately for us, and it's unfortunate, but then there's also some fortunateness about it because he's not suffering anymore the way that he was. He died when he was four.
Maureen Benkovich (14:58.659)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (15:04.526)
Thanks
Marie Burgess (15:04.741)
And so going through living in the PICU, you know, in a hospital for months, know, it's your life.
Maureen Benkovich (15:11.98)
That's your life.
Marie Burgess (15:14.513)
everything. So you're going through all these different grief responses constantly, right? And you just you have to normalize what's coming at you as your new normal. And you know, you start to really hold on to the small victories and simple pleasures, the little things and you know that
was compounded by the love that we had, right? But you know, I still had all these emotions and these complex feelings and I could turn to my mom and say, you know, I have something that's on my mind that is really hard, you know, can I talk about it with you? It's probably going to be hard for you to hear. And she's like, absolutely. I mean,
Maureen Benkovich (16:02.072)
So you had good support and you also have yourself were good at communicating, but I'm guessing some of the people you work with don't have the support and maybe can't express or don't feel safe enough to express. And that is what you help them with specifically.
Marie Burgess (16:07.23)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (16:16.597)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Well, so the way that I like to say it is, you know, okay, you have, you experience the death of someone and that changes your life, right? You experience the death of your child and that changes your entire world. So it's not even just like,
I like to help people with grief. I like to help parents figure out how to navigate life again. Because when it happens, it's just, nothing else matters. Like everything is just silly or stupid or like inconsequential. People have these other problems, no they don't. Right?
Maureen Benkovich (17:08.046)
You have a perspective shift that is just so different.
Marie Burgess (17:14.913)
Absolutely. And so, you know, about like how do people find me or why do I work with families is, you know, because I was a kid griever once that had questions, right? My classmate at my desk had sickle cell. I knew that. She died. Debrina Posey. I went to her funeral. It the first open casket I had ever seen.
Maureen Benkovich (17:39.16)
That makes sense while you were so interested in grief as a kid.
Marie Burgess (17:43.145)
Right, people were dying, but nobody was talking to the kids about it. So what do kids do? They make up things because they don't have the information they need. But I would ask questions. And sometimes received well, sometimes not. And I have a sweet spot for working with children. I like to work with children. And...
Maureen Benkovich (17:54.157)
Right?
Marie Burgess (18:08.481)
You know, to me, you know, having been a child griever and knowing what I know about having more than 15 years experience working with children. This is this is a place. This is this is a support that people need. And oh, my gosh, as a high school counselor, my last senior class. Class of 2017, I had four students die in one year. Four.
Maureen Benkovich (18:20.504)
This is your niche.
Maureen Benkovich (18:24.653)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (18:39.083)
for boys. my gosh.
Maureen Benkovich (18:40.364)
my.
So what you do is so necessary. And you're right, there are not enough people that want to talk about it or know how to handle it. And also, I want to just get into why grief does drive people toward alcohol, drugs, or other numbing behaviors. And when you see that, how do you help them? What do you recommend?
Marie Burgess (19:02.849)
Well It's complicated as you know right right talking about Alcohol use one of the one of things I like to say to people is you know and I've heard you talk about this on your podcast before it's just like you know people say You know I might have like three drinks a week, and I'm like in my head I'm going double it right you know because it's always more, but it's not like people
Maureen Benkovich (19:06.432)
Yes, of course.
Maureen Benkovich (19:26.53)
Yeah, yes.
Marie Burgess (19:31.409)
underrate themselves intentionally sometimes sometimes people do But when I'm doing an assessment for a new client, they're telling me, you know about their symptoms of PTSD or they're telling me about How they they're getting ready to get fired from their job they think because the grief is so intrusive into their life that they are crumbling
Maureen Benkovich (19:34.338)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (19:53.55)
Hmm.
Marie Burgess (20:00.597)
So this is where I'm getting the navigating the world part because literally everything has shifted. seismic, there's a tsunami of grief that has come back and knocked them down and destroyed everything. And what do people do but look for a way to help themselves feel better? Totally understandable. And one of the ways that
Maureen Benkovich (20:07.906)
Yeah, seismic shift.
Maureen Benkovich (20:13.294)
Mmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:24.408)
course. Yeah.
Marie Burgess (20:29.771)
I like to approach substance use of any kind is from a place of non-judgment, right? From a place of like, I get it. You know, like you feel like shit and you want to feel better. Duh, right? Makes sense. And so how do people do that? Well, they do it the easiest way they can, right? And sometimes that means that they drink every day. And sometimes that means...
Maureen Benkovich (20:35.854)
Absolutely.
Maureen Benkovich (20:45.271)
Right?
Marie Burgess (20:57.503)
they do other substances or they eat or you know, whatever it is, whatever the tool is. And alcohol is just one that is so...
Maureen Benkovich (21:02.029)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (21:11.022)
Well, it's so easily accessible and it's, yeah. Accessible, yeah. And people are actually coming to you saying, here, have a drink. You deserve this, you need this. And plus the other people I'm imagining are also like, I don't know how to talk to this person, so I want to have a drink too. And so it's a cycle on both sides.
Marie Burgess (21:12.673)
Thank you, I was like it's social acceptable is socially cool as easily accept I mean geez
Marie Burgess (21:34.655)
Right, right. And you know, it's understandable from the perspective of it's just so painful to think about, to relive memories, especially when we talk about PTSD. And a lot of the families, the parents and families that I work with do meet criteria for clinically severe PTSD from what they've witnessed happen to their child.
myself being also included in that.
Maureen Benkovich (22:06.154)
Yeah, I was going to say because we used to think PTSD was just people coming back from war and isolating it to that terrible experience. But really, you, of course, you know this better than me, have learned so much more about what PTSD can look like in many different arenas.
Marie Burgess (22:20.265)
Yeah, and that was actually a pain point for me, almost like a shame point, where I was like, how can I say I have PTSD? But I knew that that was not a logical thought. I knew that was an irrational, unhelpful, intrusive thought, but it was still a thought that I had that I needed to wrestle with.
Maureen Benkovich (22:24.876)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (22:43.286)
Like, you shouldn't have that. You should be able to deal with it. Is that being hard on yourself?
Marie Burgess (22:48.797)
yeah, or feeling like if I tell people that I have PTSD from a grief experience from a death experience, they're gonna they're gonna Be judgmental like it couldn't have been that bad people die Right, but but people don't necessarily get PTSD from dying. So you probably don't have that and I'm like so
Maureen Benkovich (23:01.742)
Mm.
Maureen Benkovich (23:11.414)
Okay, but what's that really about? That's really about the other person for so many reasons that that could be another podcast. so how do you help your clients feel instead of flee?
Marie Burgess (23:15.603)
Exactly.
It could. It could.
Marie Burgess (23:26.857)
Ooh, I like that. Well, I'm honest with them. I'm honest about, you know, what they can do to help themselves and what they are doing that they think is helpful. That's actually not helping. It's harming. And one of those main things is avoidance, capital A avoidance, right? You think you're helping.
But really, when you shove that emotion down or you shove that memory down, when is it coming back? And they'll say, when I'm trying to go to sleep. when I'm driving. anytime I try to do something where I quiet my brain, like meditating or even running. So people are, they become afraid of any sort of internal
Maureen Benkovich (24:00.536)
Right.
Marie Burgess (24:19.709)
exploration because of what they're going to find there. And one of my favorite things to say about grief is that grief will demand to be witnessed. If you ignore it or shove it, that's only temporary. It will come back with a vengeance and knock you down when you usually at the most inconvenient time.
Maureen Benkovich (24:48.62)
Right, maybe when you are working or driving or being with other people. Yeah.
Marie Burgess (24:52.073)
You grab an important meeting? No, you don't. Because you're about to start snot crying after something reminded you of your loved one. And because you haven't spent time honoring and witnessing your grief, it's going to come flooding out of you when you don't want it to. And that's the thing that people say is they feel out of control. feel their grief.
Maureen Benkovich (25:13.656)
bright.
Marie Burgess (25:19.115)
has made them feel out of control, they don't know how to help themselves, so they do the only things that work. Right, right, right, right. And this is what I see with my clients who have experienced traumatic grief. So not just somebody dying, but some sort of trauma that occurred and resulted in the death of that person.
Maureen Benkovich (25:25.88)
To shut it down. To shut it down, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (25:34.808)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (25:43.713)
It sounds like you almost have to first help them to give themselves permission to see the hell traumatic because the world just wants to go, come on, know, get over it. But, but right. the things people say. Yeah. So it sounds like you have to help them first have that awareness and acceptance. And then how do you, how then you get them to feel, to go inside, too quiet without turning to substances.
Marie Burgess (25:53.415)
People die in car accidents every day. You know? It's like, bleh! You know?
Marie Burgess (26:12.211)
So this is where sort of I got my business name from is having a genuine connection with them, like a real heartfelt human to human because I'm not, listen, I have been there, right? So, and for some people, they have tried getting help from other people who don't really know.
Maureen Benkovich (26:21.283)
Love it.
Maureen Benkovich (26:29.251)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (26:38.943)
You know, they haven't had a child die, you know, so maybe some for some people having a sort of good fit is enough to really be helpful. And then there are the folks that I work with that they need to see that another person is no longer drowning. So I will. Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (26:42.413)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (27:00.268)
Yeah, because you provide them hope, I would think, and you're someone who went through it, that you can relate on every level.
Marie Burgess (27:08.275)
Yes, and in the therapy world, you know, there's sort of like a line or maybe a taboo that's sort of been called into question in the professional realm of how much do you disclose about personal experience, you know, with somebody. And in my job, it's a lot. In my particular role as a helper for people trying to figure out how to live life again after the death of their child.
Maureen Benkovich (27:22.221)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (27:37.671)
I will answer any question they have for me.
Maureen Benkovich (27:40.354)
That makes so much sense to me. Mine is a different realm, but same thing. It would have been hard for me to get coaching from someone who didn't struggle with alcohol. And I can also provide that for somebody else without judgment and shame because I get it. It's a struggle. Yeah, yeah.
Marie Burgess (27:55.327)
Right. Raw. Just totally real, unfiltered is usually how I operate. And you know that because we've talked a million times.
Maureen Benkovich (28:02.242)
Well, I love that about you. know, from the moment I met you, I love that about you. And actually speaking of raw and unfiltered, would you share the time period where you recognized you were drinking too much and actually came much later, but would you talk about that a little bit?
Marie Burgess (28:15.945)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, right after Harvey died, which was in September 2015, you know, up until then, I had been a pretty much like,
what I would call a regular drinker. know, like I worked in the school. I would come home, have a glass of wine and it was a bigger glass, right? It was a big glass. wasn't the little six ounce. Yeah, yeah. But you know, I was like, it is what it is. You know, I'm gonna have a vice, let it be this, okay? And then when everything shifted, tsunami came.
Maureen Benkovich (28:36.61)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (28:44.876)
Bigger than your standard pour, yeah.
Marie Burgess (29:01.729)
Maureen Benkovich (29:02.86)
Meaning COVID you're talking about?
Marie Burgess (29:05.147)
So while I'm talking about the when Harvey died and then right so because there was a period of time where I pulled back a little bit from drinking so I was drinking regularly as we do in our culture right and then I started to drink more after Harvey died because what
Maureen Benkovich (29:08.748)
This, okay, when, yes.
Maureen Benkovich (29:21.592)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:30.872)
You didn't want to it. Yeah. Get it.
Marie Burgess (29:32.019)
shambles, right? And then I remember, and this I had to go back and ask about because I was like, I couldn't remember because it was the first time that I had ever blacked out from drinking. Wasn't my college years, wasn't that, right? It was actually the one year anniversary.
Maureen Benkovich (29:50.061)
Right?
Maureen Benkovich (29:56.494)
Mm.
Marie Burgess (29:57.471)
Was it the birthday? See, look, I don't remember. I don't remember all the details because that was the most that I had ever drank. I actually hosted a party at my house and then disappeared. And my husband was like, found me in bed sleeping. And I remember, I remember him waking me up and being like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, not.
Maureen Benkovich (30:18.904)
Yeah. I mean, what we know for sure is you might be drinking, as you said, like a regular drinker, but then when we tie it to specifically trauma, stress, PTSD, grief, it locks in that neural pathway and your brain's like, do that again, because that made us stop thinking about it for a while.
Marie Burgess (30:37.853)
that made us stop thinking about it. What a relief, right? What a reprieve. And, but I had always known
some of the about myself and my family history and our proneness to developing addictions where I was just like, and I'm talking not just substances like alcohol, but harder substances, food addictions being a big one and just knowing like I needed to step back, right? And that was a wake up call for me was when I blacked out and I don't remember that was scary to me.
Maureen Benkovich (31:16.216)
Mm Yeah.
Marie Burgess (31:18.369)
And so I had enough, I had enough knowledge of myself to back up. And so I really toned things down. And I don't remember if I stopped drinking after that, but I do remember drinking again when COVID hit. Weren't we all, right? And to the point too that,
Maureen Benkovich (31:35.796)
Right, I knew you would talk about that, yes.
Yeah, I was.
Marie Burgess (31:47.219)
You know, it was a lot trying to manage. And I started to have some gut issues and some things like stress-related outcomes. And I knew alcohol wasn't helping with that. And I wanted to make a change again. And luckily, my family is supportive. They were supportive and not, good for you, know, kind of like.
Maureen Benkovich (32:00.962)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (32:15.832)
That's so good. Yeah.
Marie Burgess (32:17.075)
it. And I know that that's not what everybody has. So I try to be that. Yeah, for like my clients that want to shift something, I try to be their cheerleader when they might not have any other cheerleaders. You know, so I'll be their hype man. So COVID came around. And you know, like everybody else, I was trying to figure out how to make sense of dumpster fire that we were in. And
Maureen Benkovich (32:21.164)
Yeah, a lot of people don't get that.
Marie Burgess (32:46.389)
You know, I used alcohol to cope. mean, jeez, thinking back, it's hard to imagine, like, all the stuff we did five years ago to, like, survive. But, yeah, was home with two small children. And then I would see all of my clients in the afternoon. And then I wanted a glass of wine! Or two. Or three. Right! Because I knew the next day I was gonna have to be up with
Maureen Benkovich (33:10.326)
Or three. Yeah.
Marie Burgess (33:15.905)
I was gonna be home with the kids all day. if I was gonna like get poor sleep or something, I'm like, what else is new? I have two small children. Sleep?
Maureen Benkovich (33:25.986)
That's called, we call that the what the hell effect in the alcohol coaching world. It's kind of like what the hell, yeah.
Marie Burgess (33:32.481)
It's gonna be shitty sleepy either way I go so mine as well be shitty plus wine
Maureen Benkovich (33:38.904)
So how did you turn that around? What was the breaking point for you?
Marie Burgess (33:43.489)
So I knew with some of my former medical issues, my explorations, that I was not helping myself. Right? I wasn't helping myself. I knew that my liver was... I was worried actually. I was worried because I have a tumor on my liver.
Maureen Benkovich (34:04.077)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (34:08.533)
that is just gonna be there forever. Focal, nodular hyperplasia. It's gonna be there, it's benign, there's nothing to do about it. I actually found out about it after Harvey died and I was drinking. And I was like, GI doctor, what could possibly be wrong? And they were like, let's do some tests. you have a tumor. it's benign, but it's not gonna go away. I'm like, okay.
Maureen Benkovich (34:36.526)
But isn't that interesting that sometimes even hearing that kind of information isn't enough? So what was the value base, something wasn't in alignment with who you are, usually is what I find when people, it doesn't feel good internally, it feels incongruent with who they are.
Marie Burgess (34:54.165)
Well, what happened was, as the kids used to say, right, what happened was, is I was not practicing what I preach.
And that's another thing we talk about in the therapy world is like, ooh, if I only did all the things I told my clients to do, right? Like I could probably sleep better and have less stress and all those things, right? And I am a firm believer of like practicing what you preach and modeling, right? That's another thing that I do when I'm working with parents and some behaviors in their children is I'm talking about the importance of modeling and I'm like.
Maureen Benkovich (35:13.004)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (35:26.093)
Yes.
Marie Burgess (35:35.357)
Shit, you know, I'm reflective, you know, because that's part of doing this work as a therapist is reflecting on your own behaviors, your own life and your own problems and going like, doing the work, right? You can't like with grief, I couldn't do the grief work until I did the work on my grief. Does that make sense?
Maureen Benkovich (35:43.884)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (35:58.381)
Yeah, but you also had to keep that self-compassion all along, as I often talk about with changing your relationship with alcohol too, but with grief specifically, because I think there's just this feeling like we should get over stuff. And so having that self-compassion and giving yourself the space or making the boundaries, and guess that is what you also help people with, carving out the space and the boundaries that they need to heal. And that's such beautiful work that you do. I am so glad.
Marie Burgess (36:10.775)
my god, yes.
Maureen Benkovich (36:27.618)
that you do this and you've taken your pain and turned it into creating genuine connections with these grieving families and parents and siblings that need this. So it's beautiful work that you do. Your art, she is so genuine. I want to let everybody know.
Marie Burgess (36:42.401)
Yes, I'm not just putting on a front, right? I'm like this all the time.
Maureen Benkovich (36:47.638)
Yes, yes. And so I just, I thank you so much for showing up here with your compassion and your wisdom and sharing your story. And I like how you talk about the piece with alcohol. It was a journey, right? It was a process and there was a trial and error. And eventually you said, what was it eventually that this was no longer serving you? Like, how did you get to that place? It was a journey, end of the journey.
Marie Burgess (37:09.793)
Yeah, yeah, and it wasn't. It wasn't. It just wasn't. It wasn't. And I've listened to you before and it struck me, you know, something that I think you were talking about with Dr. Kinney, where it was like...
Maureen Benkovich (37:14.605)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (37:27.361)
was attributing some of the problems that I was having to everything else other than the alcohol. Right? Oh, it's probably the fast food or it's probably the butter that I'm using. You know, it's not. Right? Couldn't be. Right. And that was that was another thing where I was like.
Maureen Benkovich (37:33.996)
Yeah. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (37:44.652)
The gluten, the dairy, yeah I used to do all that. Can't be the alcohol.
you
Marie Burgess (37:55.209)
Okay, Marie, you can like get real here. Get real with yourself. And I actually joined, so this goes with the sober fit part, right? I was doing Fit for Mom, know, a local.
Maureen Benkovich (38:09.944)
Mm-hmm.
Marie Burgess (38:11.745)
local moms supporting each other, right, through everything, motherhood being primary. And one of the things that they encourage you to do when you do sort of like their program to get things going is to stop drinking alcohol. And so I was like, well, here's another reason, right? Like, I know I have done this before. I know that I feel a lot better.
Maureen Benkovich (38:15.384)
Love that.
Maureen Benkovich (38:31.854)
Beautiful.
Marie Burgess (38:41.951)
when I'm not consuming alcohol every day. Just like I know I feel better when I move my body every day. And I know I feel great.
Maureen Benkovich (38:51.534)
So once again, I love this because you are modeling for people. So if someone came to you and they're like, yeah, but you don't know my grief. Well, yes, you do. So I have to drink and you can again model actually, here's what I've learned over time. And so again, you're so authentic that people can relate to you. It's so important because I would imagine this goes hand in hand people. I know the first client I ever had, we were about six sessions in, he was doing great, not drinking.
really focusing on health and fitness and his adult son committed suicide. This is my very first client I ever had as a young coach.
Marie Burgess (39:28.745)
gosh what a a doozy on that one right
Maureen Benkovich (39:32.672)
And in my brain, I was like, yeah, I get it. Like, while you're going back to drinking, was really, you know, you can understand the extreme pain and just not wanting to feel that. So I love that you can relate on that level too. You know, so many layers to work through. Yes, yeah. So I want to say to anybody out there, if you're grieving or if you're supporting someone who is, remember, you don't have to go through it alone. Marie is here.
Marie Burgess (39:40.896)
you
Maureen Benkovich (40:02.606)
whether you're struggling to stay sober through the pain or just trying to survive the next hour. Marie's work is about creating space for healing without judgment. All of her info will be in the show notes. So if this conversation spoke to you or maybe you want to pass this on to someone you know, please do. And Marie, is there anything else you want to add? I just want to thank you for being here. But if there's anything you want to add, please go ahead.
Marie Burgess (40:27.103)
I mean, you said it. Grief is hard on a good day. It's harder when you feel alone. So reach out if you feel like you need support. You probably do. You're right. Reach out.
Maureen Benkovich (40:39.65)
Yeah, you probably do. Well, thank you again for being a guest on Sober Fit Life. It was so good to have this conversation.
Marie Burgess (40:47.563)
Thank you.