Maureen Benkovich (00:02.332)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Sober Fit Life. I am so excited for today's guest. She is someone whose words made me laugh and tear up emotionally and say yes out loud, sometimes all at once. Peggy Cooney is the author of This Side of Alcohol, a book I read about a year into my alcohol-free life. Her words reinforced and validated my desire and my drive to remain alcohol-free. She put into writing so many thoughts and moments I had lived.
but I hadn't yet found the language for. What I love the most is how she does it with wit and humor that only those of us who have struggled with alcohol truly can understand. The awkward, the messy, often shame-filled moments that we tried to laugh off at the time, but later realized were part of a bigger pattern. Her book was born out of the cathartic journaling she did her first two years after breaking up with alcohol. And I believe it was during COVID, right? We'll talk about that.
Peggi (00:57.484)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (00:58.81)
and you can feel the depth and honesty on every page. It is raw, relatable, and incredibly human. So, Peggy, welcome so much to SeverFitLife. Thank you for coming. I really appreciate you being here.
Peggi (01:11.318)
I could never say no to you.
Maureen Benkovich (01:12.732)
Thanks. Great. I'll keep that in mind. Yeah, when I read your book, I was about a year into my journey and I was telling you before we recorded, I was on my first alcohol-free vacation and this was the book I took with me. And I was on the airplane reading it and just, I couldn't believe you were putting into words things that I had never said out loud or couldn't articulate. And I think that's so true for so many people, the people I work with as a coach.
It just helps to hear other people understand and are going through what you're going through when you're trying to reevaluate and change your relationship with alcohol and change your whole lifestyle. So I would love it if you would first, you know, share your story, a bit about the beginning of your story, how you came to this place where you decided it was time to change and alcohol had to go.
Peggi (02:05.954)
First I have to know where you went on vacation.
Maureen Benkovich (02:08.655)
Where was it? I think that was Turks and Caicos. So it was a challenging one, right? Because, you know, what do you do in the tropics? Drink, right? Yeah. So I read it on the beach. You know, it was great. It just kept me strong and reinforced. And I didn't feel alone either because, you I had your book with me. So I loved it.
Peggi (02:11.666)
wow. Huge. Huge. Yeah. Yeah.
Peggi (02:28.162)
thanks. Yeah. Just a little bit of background. I'm a social worker and for about 20 years I was in direct practice. And I can tell you that that might be the maybe the basis, the foundation for the addiction, because I think even though it didn't really happen to me until maybe the later part of my career,
Maureen Benkovich (02:38.748)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (02:58.83)
I grew up in a very...
kind of a trauma environment and as a child and so probably picking child welfare to work in was maybe not the best choice, although I fell in love with the career. And I think what happens in that is, I mean, there's so many things that could really contribute to this. Number one, was a second marriage with stepkids and I really don't have a perfection, Jean.
I'm a big dreamer, but definitely learned to be more of a two, a people pleaser growing up just to keep things okay, you know, in my house. And so I tried to be the best stepmom on the planet and there's absolutely, it's not even possible. It's not possible for them. It totally is. Like blended family just sounds so nice, doesn't it?
Maureen Benkovich (03:45.83)
Yes.
Maureen Benkovich (03:52.804)
Right, I was going to say, that an oxymoron?
Yeah.
Peggi (03:59.982)
And no one asked for it. The kids don't ask for it. Getting into it, you kind of wonder, should I have done that? Because it is so difficult. such a, and I think 50 % of second marriages end in divorce. So the combination of that and then working in the field where we're really actually experiencing someone else's trauma on a daily basis, combined with the...
early childhood experiences I had. And then, you know, really not knowing where to put it. I'm married to a financial controller. You know, he's very black and white, very data driven. And it wasn't an environment I could come home and talk about, you know, the most severe cases of childhood abuse or child abuse. So I think what happens, I love what Ann Dossett Johnson says. She talks about it in the, she's the author of Drink. And the way that
Maureen Benkovich (04:30.682)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (04:54.982)
Yes.
Peggi (04:57.358)
that if you don't take care of these things when you're experiencing trauma on a daily basis, then what happens is it's like whack-a-mole. You're gonna cope some way with it. I'm a little all over the place, but this is who I am as a person. Eating disorders are huge for social work. I happen to drink my stress. Lots of people eat their stress.
Maureen Benkovich (05:20.336)
Really?
Peggi (05:25.454)
relationship problems, spending problems. So if you're not really taking care of what's going on with you, then it's going to pop up somewhere like guacamole, right? So for me, I was not really paying attention to any of it. we had, I had the early childhood experiences. had this secondary traumatic stress and then the system trauma, which
Maureen Benkovich (05:27.352)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (05:53.718)
was kind of the tipping point for me, which really breaks your heart, is that oftentimes I felt like I was doing more harm than good for children and families. That system trauma was heartbreaking. you know, and you and I've talked about that before in some of your experiences and how the system just sucks, you know, it's getting better, but, and then having those moral injuries too, where you're choosing.
Maureen Benkovich (06:03.324)
That had to be really hard. Yeah.
Peggi (06:21.868)
between one not so good thing and another not so good thing. So it really adds up. And if you don't process it, you know, I ended up, and then on top of that, really that icing icing on the cake is I ended up being a whistleblower at work and I was treated like a piranha. So that's when I really started about two years before I retired. That's when I really started to come home and just numb out.
You know, so it started out with, you know, one glass, then two glasses, then three glasses, then really the whole bottle. And sometimes more than that. And and I had this huge cognitive dissonance around working with families who were affected by addiction and then having growing my own addiction, you know, myself. So, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (07:13.584)
Yeah, that cognitive dissonance is such a painful place to live and we can be there for years, you know, just stuck. And I think you're right, it's very common in your industry. I'm actually working with a client right now who's an addiction counselor and recognize the cognitive dissonance and reached out. But it's so much stress that you're taking on yourself. And if you don't have an outlet, you will do something else to numb it.
Peggi (07:17.614)
It really is. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (07:40.134)
you know, some coping behavior. So when did it become apparent to you that this is a problem?
Peggi (07:40.771)
Yeah.
Peggi (07:45.742)
Well, probably about five years before I actually stopped. mean, everyone around me for a while and you know, this is common to anybody that's in the helping field. you know, you're surrounded by people that say, you know, it's okay that you passed out on the floor last night because you have a really hard job and I totally get it. So for probably the previous five years before I stopped drinking my, my daughter who ended up being the person I quit for.
my husband, even, in the very beginning, my friends, mean, I literally passed out here. you know, I was drinking before fixing them dinner and during dinner. And then, I, I not eating felt the concrete fly up to my face and they're like, it's okay. You know, your job is just so difficult. You know, I totally get it. And, so, yeah. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (08:27.356)
Yep. Probably not eating much either, right? Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (08:41.852)
And that's all we need to hear, right? Is someone to go, it's okay. You're like, cool. All right.
Peggi (08:46.934)
Yeah, so until one day when, you know, I I describe it in my book, we were at a, you know, a family picnic, which I didn't drink all day, you know, because I was wasn't gonna embarrass my family and my kids were my daughter who has two sets of twins and my my son who wasn't married at the time they were they were they came home and they walked into Paul screaming at me because I had
had something to drink when I got home. And even though it wasn't the tipping point, it was for them. If that makes sense. Like, there's been millions of times I drank more. I just had a couple drinks and I, he heard word slurring and that's all it took. But it was very painful because you know, my, my daughter and my son-in-law walked with their two sets of twins and they were three and seven at the time. Walked into Paul screaming at me. My son tried to defend me.
Maureen Benkovich (09:21.638)
Gotcha.
Maureen Benkovich (09:28.956)
That was it.
Maureen Benkovich (09:40.06)
Yeah.
Peggi (09:45.544)
And, you know, Paul left and I, you know, I didn't, I didn't think he was ever going to come back, but I wasn't sure I wanted him to. But the next, yeah. The next day, Lindsay sat down and she kind of took it like, cause I was so quiet. She took it like, don't you even care about what happened last night? And I did. I just, I was so humiliated and so embarrassed. didn't know what to say. So she said, mom, if you don't do something about.
Maureen Benkovich (09:53.084)
Hmm. That sounds like a really scary time. Yeah.
Peggi (10:14.422)
about your drinking, can't have the relationship you want with me, Jason, and the kids. And that was it. I was done. I don't think I would have quit for Paul.
Maureen Benkovich (10:20.028)
That was it.
Maureen Benkovich (10:26.224)
Yeah, it's interesting you say that your daughter Lindsay was who you quit for, but as you go through in the book, you talk about how actually then you realized you were stopping for you too, but she was the catalyst, what she said to you. Yeah, that is so powerful and what a scary moment. And you talk about it, she talks about it, Peggy goes into it in detail in the book and it's really raw and relatable. And you you continue.
Peggi (10:37.208)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Peggi (10:49.39)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (10:54.48)
through the book talking about things that come up for all of us who've struggled with drinking, but maybe we don't discuss. So I'd love to kind of keep going through your story. And you just brought up one point, shame. So let's talk about the shame, right? Because when we drink so much and an event like that happens, like you said, you didn't even know what to say the next day because you're just so in shame in your head. Like, what was that like?
Peggi (11:05.688)
Sure.
Peggi (11:23.106)
Yeah, it was terrible. I mean, I can still picture the kids' eyes looking up, you know, and they got over it the next day, but I certainly wasn't over it. And it was extremely painful. I asked Brett to take me to an AA meeting that night, and the guy welcomed me in at the AA meeting, and he...
He went out and checked on Brett. He saw that Brett brought me because we were waiting. Brett was like crying in the car. know, 37 year old man was crying in the car. And it was just like a slow movie of who I'd really hurt. Right.
Maureen Benkovich (12:02.618)
Yeah, sure. His mom.
Maureen Benkovich (12:10.682)
Yeah. Yeah. And you talk about in the book, I'm going to quote some things because it's just the way you say things. Drinking made things that were not okay, okay. And same with me. I ended up doing, saying things that I would never do if I hadn't been drunk. And that is so true. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like I became another person at time when I would really drink a lot.
Peggi (12:16.162)
Yeah.
Peggi (12:23.682)
Yeah.
Peggi (12:31.777)
I know.
Maureen Benkovich (12:39.504)
And then the shame you would feel the next day was just unbearable. And I love how you, if you, well, that's part of the shame too, right? You're like, what did I say? Look at your phone, try to act like you know what happened. That's very stressful. But you say part of the work of sobriety is to unpack the shame that we carry so that we can love ourselves again. And that's kind of what this whole book, you're sort of unpacking it all the way through.
Peggi (12:43.502)
If you could remember what you said, right? right. Trying to piece the night together. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Peggi (13:08.374)
Yeah. thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (13:09.018)
You helped me unpack it too as you were going through it. But yeah, that's why we stay stuck in drinking, right? Because the shame just compiles and it just gets bigger and bigger and we think we're the only ones. Yeah. I mean, did you feel like that?
Peggi (13:22.498)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and you know, it's so interesting because there's, you know, I was, I was in a cabin, right? My husband had left. We, you know, had one more night to stay and that Lindsay and the kids, went to the beach, thank God. And I just had Brett to hang out with. And of course, Brett is, he's such a mom lover that he said, mom, just don't drink in front of Lindsay. That was his solution. Like, no, it's, it's more serious than that. This is, this is pretty serious. Right? Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (13:51.802)
Yeah, you knew it in your bones. You knew it.
Peggi (13:55.47)
So this is not not drinking in front of Lindsay anymore. But I appreciated the loyalty because I felt so alone that weekend. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (13:58.982)
Right.
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (14:05.756)
Well, you made a great point in your book and this is so true, because your husband was at the end of his rope, so he yelled at you, he said things to you that were hurtful, he left because people don't understand addiction and you said, why would they? Why would they? Anybody who is not struggling with it doesn't understand. Why can't you just stop or just only don't drink in front of Lindsay? And it's really, it's so much bigger than that. And I love how you talk later on in your book that
Peggi (14:19.683)
Bye.
Peggi (14:27.917)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (14:35.1)
Your husband actually read some of the quitlet you were reading. I think it was this Naked Mind specifically and that helped him go, oh, okay, I didn't understand. You know, so it helps to let the people around you understand that this is not something you just go, okay, I'm done. I mean, you say it in your head, but it's a process, right?
Peggi (14:44.878)
Yeah.
Peggi (14:55.502)
Yeah, yeah. And he was angry. So, I he was so angry that I would just hide out in my room. I'm like, when he finally came back, he came back, like, I don't know, maybe a month later. And he had processed a lot of it with his daughters, adult daughters, which was irreversible. And it still is.
Maureen Benkovich (15:15.045)
Peggi (15:18.67)
Point one, if I ever give advice to people is when you're going through this, don't share adult stuff with your adult kids because they defended him. So they're in that, they're still six years later in that. we were civil to each other and we, but it's forever changed because he shared things with them that he should have never shared with them. So it took me a long time to get over that, to get over how pissed off I was at him. However, he hung in there.
Maureen Benkovich (15:44.09)
that.
Peggi (15:48.642)
with a wife who drank a lot.
Maureen Benkovich (15:50.896)
Yeah, I you both work through stuff. You both hung in there. And that's the wonderful part of the story on the other side of alcohol. Yeah, you also talk about blackouts. And that was definitely something I did not want to acknowledge was happening to me. I could just, like I said, recall trying to act like I knew what happened the night before, but I couldn't pull it off. My husband would know or somebody else would know, or they say, yeah, you were saying...
Peggi (15:53.364)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (16:18.37)
strange stuff because, again, in the book you talk about a grayout. So can you explain blackouts, grayouts and what happened to you and how you felt about that?
Peggi (16:26.156)
Yeah, I mean, some sometimes I have have, you know, total blackouts where again, you know, it's so scary. The fact that your body, you know, the science is your body shuts down so you won't die. Basically, that's, know, that you're you have alcohol poisoning in it. So it shuts your body down so you can live. That's how disgusting it is. But but again, there were times that, you know, again, those times I don't remember everything where I was functioning. I just was weird. You know, like Paul goes, you're kind of weird last night or
Maureen Benkovich (16:42.865)
Yes.
Peggi (16:55.886)
Like you were, you were you, you know, tired last night? Cause for a while I got away with it, you know, like, you know, again, I'm, I'm a social worker that deals with trauma. So, um, yeah. So yeah, it was, it was crazy. And I just going back to some of the things you, were talking about doing things that aren't okay. Like, I think the turning point for me was starting to drink alone or sneaking it.
Maureen Benkovich (17:00.443)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (17:05.445)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (17:13.648)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (17:22.96)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (17:24.622)
You know, like I would, go to the cabin. I don't think I've ever even said this. Just remind me that we'd go to our cabin, which is about three hours away. And I would run into the kitchen and drink before he put the first suitcase in that, and you know, just out of a bottle.
Maureen Benkovich (17:43.782)
Yeah. Just.
Peggi (17:46.252)
Like, who does that? Who puts wine in their boots?
Maureen Benkovich (17:49.914)
lot of people actually. I've talked to.
Peggi (17:51.278)
I have really good boots. My boots are like perfect. They're like what 12 years old and they look brand new because you know I kept my wine bottles in my boots.
Maureen Benkovich (18:00.237)
Those were your wine boots, right? Exactly. And can you recall when you were doing that? Was it like, it was going to feel like a stressful weekend? You wanted to relax right away? Like, what was your thought process? Like, why did you think, got to get some alcohol in me right now?
Peggi (18:09.624)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (18:13.772)
I think we just get to that point where five o'clock is, know, like, you know, we leave at 12. It takes, you know, you get up there about, you know, have lunch, get up there about four or five. It's like wine o'clock hour, right? But yeah, I mean, or my Paul's, you know, Paul's driving. Sometimes that made me want to drink a bottle of wine.
Maureen Benkovich (18:21.485)
yeah.
Right.
but you were trying to hide it at this point, so that's why.
Maureen Benkovich (18:32.476)
Okay. Yeah. And also you were trying to hide it so you wanted to get some in so that you wouldn't know how much you really had.
Peggi (18:37.358)
Mm hmm. Exactly. Exactly. Well, yeah, and that just reminded me of just being here and having him come home and, you know, say, Hey, do you want a glass of wine? I'm like, Sure. And I already had already drank a bottle. Then he'd be like, Why are you so weird on one drink?
Maureen Benkovich (18:50.277)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (18:55.804)
because you'd already had.
Peggi (18:55.938)
You know, I just turned you into a machine that lies. You just turn into a machine that lies on a constant basis. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (18:59.216)
Mm-hmm.
It's the addiction. Yeah, it's the drug talking. And that's, you know, we were brought up, we didn't understand, right? You didn't understand alcohol is a drug. I didn't understand that because the alcohol industry did a great job of separating drugs and alcohol. So we thought alcohol was something different. And I can so relate to so much of your story in that when I was a personal trainer, I had a friend of mine who was an instructor and also one of my clients, I took them both at different times to rehab.
Peggi (19:06.882)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-mm.
Peggi (19:17.454)
Sure did.
Peggi (19:28.44)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (19:32.924)
And I would remember thinking like, poor them, they got addicted. And then a couple of years down the road, there I was struggling with alcohol. And you talk about that in your book about taking someone to rehab, someone you were working with. Tell us about that story.
Peggi (19:37.634)
Right?
Peggi (19:42.721)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (19:52.29)
my gosh. She was my first client. before this, and I think we had talked about this before, before I became a social worker, had an aerobics and dance studio for five years. And so we'd had aerobics, art, we put on the Nutcracker. We did summer theater, like with the community college around, you know, we did Annie, we did some really fun stuff, Lion King, we had a
Maureen Benkovich (20:20.572)
Have
Peggi (20:20.746)
a kid that had Down syndrome and he was our lion king. It was just so fun and it was just a lot of work. My kids got a little bit older and they're like, we want our mom back because having your own business is like 90 hours. But I do remember that my point is that I didn't drink a lot then, but when I did drink, I drank a lot. Like I've never been at, you know, like if you told me right now I could have two drinks the rest of my life, it would be like torture to me.
Maureen Benkovich (20:41.606)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (20:49.392)
Right, right. I agree. Yeah. So you took her to rehab and you were kind of having the same thoughts I did like, poor her. Right?
Peggi (20:51.33)
Right, so.
Peggi (20:58.978)
Well, and even worse than that, I walked in and there was, she's since passed away. I walked in, her two toddlers were diapers soaked urine. The diapers were hanging so low that they were scratching the floor. An eight-year-old was sitting in a chair and I knew it wasn't his first rodeo, right? He wouldn't even look at me. And she was passed out on the couch with a handle of vodka.
Maureen Benkovich (21:24.412)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (21:29.038)
buyer and I distinctly remember saying how could she love her kids more than vodka? I didn't say it out loud. I just thought it was my first client and she taught me so much about that she loved her kids just as much as I love my kids. She just was one of those very few people that couldn't shake it. She would get better. She would get better. you know,
Maureen Benkovich (21:45.51)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (21:52.614)
Yeah, same with my friend.
Peggi (21:58.252)
I remember the day that I got to take her to rehab in San Francisco and she couldn't write her own name. And I just, but through that, I mean, I really credit her with being a really good social worker because she taught me everything about mother love around that. Just very humbling.
Maureen Benkovich (22:05.382)
Wow, yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (22:17.852)
And it shows it is humbling to know that anybody can get addicted. If you drink it on a regular basis, you tie it to, you know, stress, trauma, depression, anxiety, it locks in those neural pathways. And so none of us can escape it if we do those things, you know. Yeah. My friend, the one I took to rehab, she passed away.
Peggi (22:23.704)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (22:31.81)
Yeah.
Peggi (22:39.096)
Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (22:44.248)
several years later and yet that wasn't enough for me to go, hmm, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. It took me many years later, you know.
Peggi (22:49.642)
I know.
I know, it's crazy.
Maureen Benkovich (22:56.294)
You you talk about chaos in the book and that really struck me, sort of being addicted to chaos. And I, the kind of drinker I was, was a binge drinker and I would go hard on the weekends and it had to be like these big weekends and it was chaos. By the end, they were just getting crazy. And I never really realized until you wrote that and you talk about this quote from Mark Griffiths, PhD, writes in his blog, people are increasingly seduced into believing that intensity equals being alive.
When that happens, the mind becomes wired for drama and the soul is starved of meaningful purpose. I wrote wow next to that, because I so related to that. And in this society where everything is sensationalized and social media and everything's coming at us fast, I think we're all kind of living that way. And the alcohol only increased the chaos. What'd you say?
Peggi (23:48.908)
Yeah, have, I'm so, right now, I have a contract through UC Davis and we're working with the peacekeepers in Stockton and they're former gang members that are trying to get people out of the gangs and then supporting families that are victims of gangs. And there, I think I can say this without, you know, keeping confidence. There was a dad who,
Maureen Benkovich (24:05.5)
Wow.
Peggi (24:18.752)
is more of a victim. But he struck what he said the other day, it really struck me. He said, every time I get successful, I do something to screw it up. And I said, that's how I grew up. That's how I grew up. It's like I was so used to a chaotic environment growing up that when things went well, I'm like, this does not feel comfortable. Right? And it was
So, I, I love this. We were just talking about this this morning. I love the fact that when there's no alcohol between two humans, how our hearts connect. And our hearts connected talking about this, you know, like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I, you know, I have this job, I keep it. you know, I work 15 hours a day and then I'm like, my God, this feels so good. It doesn't feel good.
Maureen Benkovich (25:00.507)
Yes.
Peggi (25:17.304)
to feel good. And I really had to work through that to really understand that I deserve to not have chaos in my life. But it took a long time.
Maureen Benkovich (25:18.598)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (25:25.948)
Yeah, I mean, so much of our childhood affects all the defense mechanisms we come up with. And if you didn't grow up in an environment where things were stable and comfortable, or at least, you know, joyful, that doesn't feel right. Yeah.
Peggi (25:41.774)
And that totally grew way into my 50s, right? So I think that was another kind of foundation for numbing myself.
Maureen Benkovich (25:45.083)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (25:49.818)
Yeah. But it isn't, I think the big thing is not until we remove the alcohol can we start looking at all those pieces of ourselves. Because when you're numbing, you just can't go there. You can't take a look at that and you don't want to. Because it's uncomfortable, right? I mean, go ahead. Yeah, that's...
Peggi (25:58.082)
Yeah, no, totally.
Peggi (26:06.454)
Mm-mm. And even in, Yeah. No, even before when I was a kid, you know, I was, you know, and really I wasn't a drinker. My parents drank, so I really kind of stayed away from it. Even when, you know, my parents passed away and I lost my baby, I didn't drink then, you know? It was this, but I still had this chaos thing that I was sort of addicted to, you know?
Maureen Benkovich (26:16.496)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (26:23.472)
Yes.
Peggi (26:35.182)
through my 20s and 30s. And you're right, even when I did drink, it was these crazy chaotic weekends.
Maureen Benkovich (26:44.772)
Right? You know, that we thought were fun. And you know, some of it was back in the day, but things would then start to happen that we'd try to laugh off then that icky shame feeling inside, knowing inside that, that wasn't, that's not who I want to be. You know? And that's a great segue because you talk about what it feels like to feel out of alignment with yourself when you're drinking so much and that cognitive dissonance. Like, can you address that?
Peggi (26:50.562)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (27:15.882)
As far as my career.
Maureen Benkovich (27:17.244)
how you felt, I mean, I know that's how I felt. I would be, I would look in the mirror after a big, bingey drinking weekend and be like, what are you doing? What are you doing?
Peggi (27:26.08)
I know. I couldn't even look in the mirror. I, you know, that's the one thing I noticed after I stopped drinking, that it took a little while. took, you know, it took a few months, but to, I couldn't even, even when I was blow drying my hair, which hurt sometimes because I was hung over, I couldn't, I realized that I wasn't looking at myself in the mirror. And, and about, you know, like I said, about three months in, I'm like, wow.
Maureen Benkovich (27:48.293)
Hmm.
Peggi (27:55.382)
I kind of like this person I'm looking at. I would not look at the person before. I couldn't look at me.
Maureen Benkovich (27:59.686)
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's that out of alignment. You didn't even want to look at yourself because you knew it wasn't who you wanted to be, who was showing up.
Peggi (28:09.602)
But what kind of instructor, like in the morning, before COVID, we taught all in person, now we're kind of half and half. But driving to work and I'm taking my route and then I'm saying to myself, Peggy, you're not gonna drink today. You're not gonna drink today. And I never drank during the day, I was really lucky that I had eight months when COVID hit. So you're not gonna drink today, you're not gonna drink today. And then when my car...
Maureen Benkovich (28:26.812)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (28:39.67)
like almost drove itself into the parking lot of Nugget Market and I'd get a bottle of Chardonnay and seriously drank half of it on my 15 minute way home. Like, making sure I had a Yeti cup in my car. Like, who does that, right?
Maureen Benkovich (28:53.852)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, who does that are people who get addicted to alcohol. Yeah. I mean, I would pregame before, see, I would fool myself because I wouldn't really, yeah, totally, I would fool myself because I wasn't really drinking during the week. So I'd be like, I'm good. And then Thursday, and believe me, the weekend started earlier and earlier too, but Thursdays, you know, I'd be getting ready to go out and I'd feel that excitement because I knew I was going be able to drink with everybody and it was acceptable.
Peggi (29:00.526)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (29:05.698)
I was total pre-gamer.
Peggi (29:12.034)
night.
Peggi (29:23.34)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (29:25.264)
That's why I like to do it out, because it was somehow in my mind that was acceptable.
Peggi (29:31.542)
And see, by that time I was already, I was already busted by my family. So that's when it really went underground for me because I wouldn't drink around them. So I'd come with maybe three or four drinks.
Maureen Benkovich (29:41.084)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (29:45.552)
Yeah, you had a pregame and we thought we'd fool people, right? We thought we'd, know, you see pictures or something or God forbid somebody took a video, you're like, ooh, that didn't look so good. But, you know, let's talk about some of the good stuff that started to happen that you started to realize. And I tell you, this is universal with almost everybody I work with and myself. You talk about
Peggi (29:47.694)
So I know, and so I, right, right, right, right.
Peggi (30:00.12)
Yeah.
Peggi (30:04.238)
Okay.
Maureen Benkovich (30:13.19)
physical books started to mean something to you again. Reading became so important to you again and you loved reading. And I loved reading as a kid and I didn't realize how it went away when I was drinking. And so when you get rid of the alcohol, all of a sudden I'm reading a lot and I hear this all the time. Can you talk about that? Because I know you love books.
Peggi (30:19.945)
Ugh.
Me too.
Peggi (30:32.108)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have a I need a support group for books. Like when Amazon comes every day, practically, Paul goes, How many books have you not read? And I go I read a little bit of all of them now because I'm doing a lot of research. So, you know, I I, know, with the with the classes that I, you know, facilitate and then also work.
Maureen Benkovich (30:35.726)
I'm
Maureen Benkovich (30:45.275)
Me too.
Peggi (30:59.054)
But yeah, I started reading every book on the planet, starting with Annie Grace's book. And I have a lot of books listed. My favorite one out now, I have to push it, is Unaddiction by Dr. Nzinga Harrison. She is a psychiatrist. Man, she is just, she's amazing. I'm so lucky that I get to meet some of these people through UC Davis.
Maureen Benkovich (31:04.732)
You too.
Maureen Benkovich (31:15.484)
Hmm.
Peggi (31:26.55)
and we actually interviewed her and she has, it's everything. It's all the books we've ever read in one book. And then she has a podcast too, she's really good and really has the humor part too, but really talks about the inheritance of predisposition because we've kind of like shined that on that that's not really true.
Maureen Benkovich (31:48.924)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (31:54.108)
Mm-hmm. Yes, right.
Peggi (31:54.712)
But it's nature and nurture, right? I grew up in an environment where the coveted position in the family was being the martini garnisher. So I was socialized to drink, for sure. But so I love books and I love holding them in my hands. And of course, again, when we were drinking, we would read the same chapter over 100 times, right?
Maureen Benkovich (32:05.04)
Yes. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (32:15.386)
Right. And that's what happened, right? You wouldn't finish a book and you'd want to drink more and zone out with television and pass out or, you know, that kind of thing. But I mean, I love how you talk about every book, every book you read about alcohol brings you closer to your truth. And, and I do try to share this with my clients. I'm like, stay immersed, read Quitlit, it's called Quitlit-ture. When I first heard that, I'm like, what, what is Quitlit? This is amazing.
Peggi (32:33.454)
Yeah.
Peggi (32:37.144)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I know, me too.
Maureen Benkovich (32:43.184)
There's this whole world of people talking about this. So, including your book, of course. But it's so important to stay immersed in that, I think, because we're just in this saturated alcohol, saturated society. And I just love to read it too. So talk about that a little bit for you.
Peggi (32:46.603)
Yeah.
Peggi (32:59.598)
Yeah, it's, it's so cliche, right? But once you know the science, you can't unknow it. And I can go back and think about really some of the people that I've been exposed to in my job at UC Davis. I even had a life coach, you know, for a while for five years, and I was lying to her, you know, I wasn't telling her how, you know, but she planted the seeds. just talked to her last week and kind of reached out to her and said, you know, you kind of planted the seeds that I needed to have wasn't ready to hear them at the time.
Maureen Benkovich (33:04.293)
Yes.
Peggi (33:31.958)
But really, and now I lost my train of thought, sorry.
Maureen Benkovich (33:35.034)
Yeah, I get you. was sitting here saying, I'll let you train a thought back. I I just talked to Andrea Owen yesterday. I interviewed her. She was my first life coach and I said exactly the same thing. Thank you for planting the seeds. It took two more years after that for me to really, you know, put things into action. But all these little steps we take along the way matter.
Peggi (33:44.974)
Mm.
Peggi (33:51.106)
Yeah, yeah, was. But knowing this science really, you can't unknow it. Lori Ellington was another one that we met through. And I use the science a lot. She's ancient science, and so she's like the best yogi person I've ever seen. I don't love yoga, but man, she has the positions that, she's just amazing. But I really didn't.
Maureen Benkovich (33:56.476)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (34:06.362)
I did too.
Peggi (34:19.554)
didn't really understand how much that meant to me because it really did plant the seeds for me. Antigrace is science around addiction. I think the theme is, I say this a lot, is that it made me not alone. It made me know that I wasn't the only person and it wasn't my fault, but it is my responsibility. And so it really fit in with my morality as far as really talking, you know, because I work with clients.
Maureen Benkovich (34:26.139)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (34:40.805)
Yes.
Peggi (34:47.982)
And they'll say, I relapse, which I was never judgmental about.
And my answer would be, okay, what's one thing you're gonna do differently tonight to put your head on the pillow sober? Right, so knowing the science and also knowing that you're still responsible for that science to make different choices.
Maureen Benkovich (35:11.546)
Yeah, that really spoke to me. I agree with you. And I really, when I heard that it's not your fault, you know, it's addiction, it's a drug and you're drinking addictive drug all the time. But now that you know the truth, you can make different choices. That was powerful for me. And so much so that that's what I talk about when I do public speaking. My talk is it's not your fault, it's chemistry. Why it's so darn hard to drink less because
Peggi (35:12.971)
is really important to me.
Peggi (35:21.87)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (35:37.987)
that's beautiful. It's so beautiful.
Maureen Benkovich (35:40.41)
Yeah, because I feel like it helps people, it helped me become informed and feel empowered again and make a different choice. Now it took time, of course, but the more we reinforce the science, like you're saying, with Quitlit, with talking with other people who get it, going to something like Sober in the City, which we'll talk about in a minute, all of that, so important to reinforce.
Peggi (36:03.958)
And I, you know, I work for a university. have to have shout out to Alison Book. She's our director for the continuing professional and education human services. She, I told my boss when I was about 12 months, one year, I hit one year. Cause I wanted to make sure. And nobody knew nobody. My colleagues had no idea. Zero.
Maureen Benkovich (36:23.654)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (36:30.094)
And she has encouraged me to live my sobriety out loud when it's meaningful and appropriate. I can share my lived experience with them because I want new social workers to love their job and stay at their job. And if they can't process all those things that happened to them, they're going to quit. They're going to burn out. They're going to quit. And that has a really negative effect on the children and families we serve.
Maureen Benkovich (36:39.078)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (36:58.368)
Every time our children and families have to tell their story over again, it's one more trauma for them. So if we can, we can say this is going to happen to you, you're going to feel this way. You know, I can, I can share my lived experience with them so that maybe they, they won't end up in that place. I mean, I looked over a sea of 900 people last year at a conference and I could tell you that 85 % of them are overweight. They're eating their stress.
Maureen Benkovich (37:01.552)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (37:16.476)
Yeah, I think that's so important.
Maureen Benkovich (37:26.47)
Right? Right?
Peggi (37:29.198)
And probably some of them are drinking and I am going to a conference next month where I talk about self mapping and you know, what's working in your life. What are we worried about and what are some of the next steps you're going to do? And it's such a beautiful touching session because I'll have people say, I drink too much. I'm having trouble with my teenage daughter, you know, cause I'm just not there for her.
Maureen Benkovich (37:39.931)
Yeah.
Peggi (37:56.642)
because I'm so stressed out because of all the things I saw that day or whatever and really talking about those things. So, okay, so now you know what you're worried about. What are you gonna do next? What's one thing you're gonna do next to change them?
Maureen Benkovich (38:10.748)
Yeah, I love that you're sharing your experience and your story with everybody, but also specifically people in your industry. Yeah, that's a huge mission. So important. Like you said, otherwise those families have to keep telling their story over to a new person if there's high burnout and people dropping out of your industry.
Peggi (38:16.118)
I'm so lucky.
You know?
Yeah, it's insane.
Peggi (38:32.62)
Yeah, and of course, you know, lots of the people that we serve are drinking because they, you know, they just can't cope, right?
Maureen Benkovich (38:40.398)
Right? It's the unhealthy coping mechanism, but it's so quick and fast and easy and that's why we do it. And of course, none of us ever think we're going to get caught in it, stuck in it. You know? This is one I loved. I love my own comment. I wrote this and just this. This is like amazing. I'm going to read the whole chapter. I mean, sorry, I'm not going to lie. Sometimes sobriety has been harder than shit for me.
Some days just getting up every morning and going to bed sober is all I can do. But you know what's harder than becoming alcohol-free? Thinking about it and staying in the same miserable, and I mean miserable place day after day. Nothing creates more inner conflict than wanting to change and doing nothing about it. And I think that is so powerful. That's that cognitive dissonance. And yeah, I just wrote that because that was for years. Like I don't want to do this anymore, but I'm doing it. Why?
Peggi (39:30.85)
Thank you.
Peggi (39:39.67)
Yeah. And we're so lucky to be able to share with other people. That's what I just can't, you know, again, you look at my mom or, you know, maybe some people in your life where there was nothing for my mom. There was nothing for my mom. But she didn't have a place to go either. You know, what was there AA and, you know, and AA really wasn't for women when my mom was around.
Maureen Benkovich (39:47.408)
Yeah, same with my mom.
no, you didn't talk about it.
Right?
Maureen Benkovich (40:04.976)
Right. My mom, when we finally talked to her and she went to AA, but she drove like two towns over and went to this inner city because she didn't want anybody that might know my father or her to see her. And she went like twice, but God bless her. She stopped cold turkey. She just, when she realized she was hurting her children, very similar to your story, she just stopped, but she never did any work and she was full of shame and sad and you know.
Peggi (40:26.146)
Wow.
Maureen Benkovich (40:34.78)
But I never thought I'd have an issue with drinking and then, like you said, nurture and nature catches up with you. Yeah. There is so much in this book. I hope everybody will go get it because I keep wanting to point out things. But I love your advice. So maybe for people in early days, so on page 170, you talk about, let's just slow down, especially in the beginning. And I see this so much people will come to me, they'll be like, how long is this going to take?
Peggi (40:42.382)
Right, right.
Peggi (40:47.406)
Thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (41:04.252)
Can I get this done in 30 days?" And I always say, how long have you been drinking? And they'll be like 50 years, 45 years, you know, I was 45. Why do we think we're going to lick this in 30 days? You know, so the patience, the self-compassion, the curiosity is so important. But you talk about that. Can you reiterate that about just slow down?
Peggi (41:28.718)
Oh, you just really hit one of my places because again, the work I do, I mean, I get to teach now, but the 30 day rehabs, it could be a excuse me, it could be a whole...
Maureen Benkovich (41:32.54)
Good. Yeah.
Maureen Benkovich (41:38.234)
Hello.
Peggi (41:47.326)
whole session because 30 days isn't enough. Like our fans would go away and then be in this ginormous, you know, rehab place that costs so much money. They drive down Main Street and use again and, and, you know, you have to be an out of the box thinker because the government set up, I mean, we could talk forever about this because it's so passionate about it is that, you know, we set up people who are failure.
Maureen Benkovich (41:50.34)
It's not.
Maureen Benkovich (41:57.798)
bubble.
Maureen Benkovich (42:12.017)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (42:15.256)
We don't set them up to be successful.
Maureen Benkovich (42:19.322)
Yeah, that is another podcast episode, but it is so true. But yeah, I agree with that. But for more the gray area drinker or the person who's just really trying to change and they're not going to rehab and they're not going to a 12 step. I offer 30 day, you know, starts, but I tell people like, this is like a drop in the bucket. This is hopefully for you to start feeling better sleep or liking yourself more or, you know, but it's,
Peggi (42:19.661)
So.
God, it's so awful.
Peggi (42:33.793)
Right.
Peggi (42:39.437)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (42:44.578)
Right.
Maureen Benkovich (42:46.502)
probably in 30 days, it's very rare that you're going to change completely. It's very rare. But I love how you say in early sobriety, we can get hung up on the outcome rather than the day-to-day challenges and the successes. We have to focus on that. That's such wisdom that you shared there.
Peggi (42:53.291)
End.
Peggi (43:04.822)
things. I mean, some days I went to bed at six, six o'clock at night. I mean, just a you know, because the world got too much, right? All of a sudden, you were feeling everything or feeling the joy and the sorrow. And so you would, I would just go to bed. Or, but journaling just saved me. The other thing that saved me big time was telling, telling my story about, you know, 100 days in, I started posting on the Sober Cis Facebook page and
Maureen Benkovich (43:17.222)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (43:27.707)
Yes.
Peggi (43:34.798)
it really resonated with people, but I had to help hold myself accountable. I mean, I don't think I would have ever drank again, because the price was too high for me. And I'm really lucky that I have that for, I have some people that I know now that don't have anybody to answer to. So when they don't have anybody to answer to, they have a spouse saying, you're no fun when you don't drink, it's a...
Maureen Benkovich (43:44.316)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (43:58.032)
Mm-hmm. That happens a lot.
Peggi (44:01.742)
the cards are more against them and really understanding, you you have to rely on on sort of that moral compass that you have inside of you, you know.
Maureen Benkovich (44:11.13)
Yeah. Well, we are so glad you did decide to start writing because that's really what this book is, right? Your blog, your journal. So I highly recommend everybody, I'm holding it up, the little picture of Peggy, I love this. So, I mean, I could go on and on and talk to you forever. And I hope we'll get to talk sometime in person. But how can people find you and connect with you and where can they get your book? And I think you're working on another one, aren't you? Yeah.
Peggi (44:14.562)
Thanks. It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Maureen.
Peggi (44:28.621)
Yeah.
Peggi (44:36.29)
Yeah, I am. This side of alcohol Facebook page is really interactive. And also I have a newsletter that I send out every Sunday. So we're over four years old right now, so that's pretty cool. And then, so this side of alcohol, Instagram, and also I am the chief connections officer for Zero Proof Experiences. So we also...
Maureen Benkovich (44:41.456)
Mm-hmm.
Maureen Benkovich (44:52.72)
It is cool.
Peggi (45:05.55)
have that, that Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we put, we're putting on our ninth weekend experience in Scottsdale, Arizona, in May, May 16th through the 18th. And we have been to Bali, Seattle, Tampa, Austin, Sacramento, Palm Springs. So we put on these weekends and then
Maureen Benkovich (45:08.504)
And zero proof experiences is sober in the city, right? That's all together. Yeah, so these are like quickly, let's just say what they are. What are they?
Peggi (45:35.712)
A year ago, we started bi-weekly meetings where we have Zoom calls that are around, I'm alcohol-free, now what? So really getting, not necessarily, we have some people that are newly alcohol-free, but mostly people that are looking to kind of go deeper with all the work you have to do after you stop drinking.
Maureen Benkovich (45:44.411)
Love that.
Maureen Benkovich (45:57.276)
That is so important. I love them. Alcohol-free now what? So check that out, people. I have a lot of my clients who are like, now what? So I'm going to send them there. What do you do? I always like to ask this in your life to say sober fit. This is Sober Fit Life podcast. So what do you do in your life? Walking.
Peggi (46:11.232)
I walk, I walk a lot and I'm really addicted to walking right now. I had a knee replacement eight, nine months ago. And so first surgery I've ever had. So I have a new appreciation for exercise now. I, even before when I was teaching, I used to kind of lay down and take a nap. I get in a walk, I'll walk. I make myself walk and it feels so good. And my husband just bought some.
Maureen Benkovich (46:18.32)
That's right.
Maureen Benkovich (46:32.06)
Yeah.
Peggi (46:40.558)
equipment, some bands, stretch bands. They're kind of sophisticated, a little bit nicer. So I'm going to start doing that because obviously I need to do some more, you know, low intensity weights, but walking is my thing. And I ride my bike too. Now I'm back on the bike after. So now I'm finally glad I had that knee replacement. It took me 10 months to go. Okay. I'm really glad I had it because it was, it was not fun. That was not fun.
Maureen Benkovich (46:44.23)
Nice.
Maureen Benkovich (46:57.382)
Great.
your knee surgery.
Maureen Benkovich (47:06.908)
Yeah, that's not fun. But the best part is your system was clear, you had alcohol out of your system for long time, you went into that surgery in the best possible position you could. So now you love walking to stay sober fit. You're going to add some bands, I can like keep you accountable to back in on you. And I hope to see you at one of the Sober in the Cities. I really want to get there. They just sound amazing. So I'm going to shoot to go to the next one.
Peggi (47:13.282)
Yeah.
Peggi (47:17.282)
Mm-hmm.
Peggi (47:22.326)
Yeah, thank you.
Peggi (47:31.02)
I think it's gonna be Colorado Springs next year.
Maureen Benkovich (47:33.02)
Whoa. Okay. I'm going to do that one. I love that.
Peggi (47:37.294)
We'll know by, I think this afternoon, so. Yeah. Thank you.
Maureen Benkovich (47:39.952)
All right, I'll look for the announcement and I'll share it too. So look in the show notes. Again, this side of alcohol, Peggy Cooney, thank you so much for being here.
Peggi (47:48.318)
Aw, thanks, Maureen. I just love you.
Maureen Benkovich (47:50.14)
Have a great day. I love you too.
Peggi (47:52.334)
Bye.
Maureen Benkovich (47:53.742)
You are easy to talk to.
